1.3 Motronic Up-Grade & 2.7i How To

[jmc1590]

Ok, I've stayed out of this long enough. I just did an e2i on a 528e (12/86) with a non-seta block. Total cost, probably around $300 - $400. Sure I could have found a B25, but not around here, and not for that amount. Plus, the additional costs to pull the entire engine would have added another $100.

So I have a low compression 2.7i. Ok, it feels good. Much better than my eta ever did. It revs higher. Which doesn't necessarily mean more power, but I can see an advantage when I auto-X it again. (1st to 2nd, that's all folks!) And I learned a lot. About Motronic 1.0 and 1.3. I think I could probably recite the ETM in my sleep if need be. And there is something about starting into a job that you're not sure if you can complete that when finished is a wonderful thing.

And I've dyno'ed it. Which confirms my thoughts, it gained power. Not a ton, but enough.


131 HP / 150 Tq - which is a far cry better than my eta was ever capable of producing. And considering what I learned from the dyno, (the flat spot after 4600), a little tuning can improve upon these numbers a bunch.

While it's not perfect, and not "huge" numbers, it's drivable. And fun. And no longer requires downshifting when trying to crusie up a steep hill.

Your results may vary, but I think it's a blast!

[lennon]

Uhm, how do you know?

there is no way a 24v rebuild is as cheap as an M20. For one, there are twice as many parts in the head to replace. The bottom end, sure, they are almost exactly the same. But replacing the valves, guides, lifters, springs, keepers, etc. is going to cost you twice as much, just because there are twice as many parts.

i know because ive rebuilt an m20 head and im rebuilding an s50 head right now. youre right about that, its not quite true that theyre the same price. i was mostly thinking about the bottom end, gasket sets, sensors, etc. the head will cost more because it is twin cam. that wasnt really my point anyway. point is things that are better cost money, and not to expect great things from something you do for free or close to it. no one doing this e+i head combo is doing any rebuild anyway, if they were it should be with a better setup than that. m20b25 is the budget upgrade for eta people. or chip and 3.25lsd rear end. the i head on e block would never be worth it to me, even if it was free and i didnt have to do the work. i dont wanna argue with any of these people though. i just disagree so much! ill just stay outta this thread:)

[nando]

you plan on piecing together this 2.7i with a full rebuild for 500 bucks or less? a 24v can be rebuilt for the basically the same $$$ as a 12v, ask me how i know.

Uhm, how do you know?

there is no way a 24v rebuild is as cheap as an M20. For one, there are twice as many parts in the head to replace. The bottom end, sure, they are almost exactly the same. But replacing the valves, guides, lifters, springs, keepers, etc. is going to cost you twice as much, just because there are twice as many parts.

[nando]

if you want to build a 3 liter, all you can use from the eta is the block. you need an S52 or M54 crank for the larger stroke. Another alternative is the M52 crank which would give you 2.9 liters with an 85mm bore or 3.0 with an 86mm bore. there's also the S50 crank but they only made those for one year, M52 or S52 would be easier to find.

the 284 is a good choice for a street motor. and you're likely going to want custom pistons for this, unless you want to use some wacky combination of OEM pistons/rods and deck the block to make it work with a good CR. JE is a good choice for a decent price and they have the correct profile for the 885 combustion chamber.

[lennon]

ok jack pie so maybe everyone out there dosent have hook ups for a cheap turbo set up to stay under your...$500 m50 swap price tag, which is way unpractical but, if thats what you say. im going to turbo my car with the m20 in it...and i know the 2.7 stroker is stupid if your car is a i already but my crank was fucked from lack of oil(via lack of drain plug from a dumb bezzy) and i had a connection to a cheap eta lower end so thats why i did it vs leaving the i an i...no one really cares if you have a eta because all your doing is bashing on them for wanting more on a budget anyways if we could all do 24v swaps im sure we would but we dont all have $500 24v swaps...which reminds me how good can a $500 dollar 24v really be? no rebuild just throw it in right??? or its pre-rebuilt right thats what the crazy bastard told you as you picked it up?

who the fuck is jack pie?

:roll:
you obviously misunderstood everything ive said and dont know shit about these motors (or motors period?). you plan on piecing together this 2.7i with a full rebuild for 500 bucks or less? a 24v can be rebuilt for the basically the same $$$ as a 12v, ask me how i know. or are you planning on boosting this e block i head without a rebuild? no rebuild just throw it in and boost it, right??? i was never even talking about building a motor for boost. thats a whole other can of worms. but "building" a turbo setup (or N/A) with a cheap ass budget is retarded. thats why im "bashing" on people trying to make their eta motors super "strokers" with junkyard funds. if people want a good motor on a budget (no rebuilds, custom shit, etc) then they should have gotten a car with an m20b25 to start with, or get one now, or get an m50. you can throw either one in there without a rebuild, atleast a 24v is 10 years newer i guess. you cant magically have 200+ fully rebuilt horsepower for 500 bucks with these motors. my issue is the i head on e block isnt even a good setup and for the cost of parts/time you spent, you could get a whole m20b25 or probably an m50. thats all there is to it. what you do with the motors is irrelevant.

its hard to get clear points across on the internet and i dont really care anyways. plus i dont know where to start with all the ignorance.

and about your other post, you think im angry because i didnt put an i head on my e? ive got a fucking 731 head running 1.3 motronic with an i cam, you think i just did the quickest easiest thing? people have known about the i head on e block for 20 years, you think i didnt know? fuck off dude go turbo your 2.7i concoction and come back with dyno numbers or even a picture of it completed. oh and a parts list... im sure thatll be hilarious.

[ikkitousen]

Okay so Im starting to get a fricken headache reading all these different posts about what is right and worth anything as compared to anything in relation to whatevers, whatever!
Someone help me out a bit please; I have an 86 eta m20 sitting on my floor cuz I busted a hose and burned it up. Its not siezed but I did have oil running out of it above the headers and all over the enigne bay. Mind you before we swapped it out for my '90 m20b25, we fired it up after putting more oil back in it and it still ran like a champ! just had that over heating issue and it didnt appear to be leaking any oil. what ever.
So right now I have an 86 eta body with a 90 i engine, 173 ecu, i still need the 1.3motronic for it. The harness is all patched up and on the car with no problems. I did run into a oil cooler issue (I bought the wrong one) that I still need to rectify but that is neither here nor there.

I was thinking about parting out the old eta engine and using it as a donor for 3.0 stoker. But what other parts am I going to need? I was also looking at a schrick 284 cam as a thought. I mean if I'm gonna do it, might as well do it right.
No I will not be FI - all motor.
No I will not be doing a m5x or 24v swap, its not what I want, and thats all that matters at this point. I want to keep the "true" m20 and just make it as "nice" as I can. I'm not looking for wild, but I want something more then mild.

Any thoughts? TIA!!!

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DAMN IM SO CONFUSED!!!

[EtaSport]

The whole point that should have been made regarding this thread is the fact of swapping over to motronic 1.1/1.3. I personally do not believe in the 885 head on eta block. I will only put a 731 or a worked 200 casting on an eta bottom end. I built 2 200 heads for my motor, one with a mild port job, 274 cam and dual springs. The other a substantial port job, 283 cam and dual springs. I went back to the I cam beacuse the valves are too small to have any benefit from the larger cams.

The I cam however suited the motor very well, I kept 9.0:1 compression, 6500 rpm rev limit and lost no low end power.

The only important hole to remember drilling on the 200 head is the one in center where the oil feed hole is cut into the head. The I cam only has one oil tranfer port cut into it. If you look at the I cam as compared to the e you will see what I'm talking about and it should make better sense.

[5KWattson]

so now the budget stroker is "for boost"? it is good for that in the sense that its cheap and flows better than eta and lowers your compression. however, 90 percent of people "building" one are not boosting, they want a cheap, fast, easy way to make their eta motor better. low-compression is a side effect of that and does not matter to them because its better than their eta motor was. that doesnt make it better than an i motor, or equal to an m50.

i have an e30 with an eta motor, and i have one with an eta bottom end and 731 head running motronic 1.3. i could have more easily sourced an 885 head but why would i want low ass compression? i am now about to swap an s50 into the 731 car.

as for the 2.7 + 885 head running with an m50... if this is true why doesnt everyone (you included) run this setup instead of an m50? do you have any dynos of this motor? im interested. are you saying an eta bottom end (not seta) with an 885 head and 1.3, makes more power than a stock i motor?

i really dont care what you guys do to your motors... just pointing out facts. wait for a 731 head or get seta pistons if you want a cheap N/A 2.7i that makes decent power. but you might as well be throwing money at a 24v or real m20 build instead. if you wanted an m20b25 you shouldve got one! you cant just turn your eta into one.

ok jack pie so maybe everyone out there dosent have hook ups for a cheap turbo set up to stay under your...$500 m50 swap price tag, which is way unpractical but, if thats what you say. im going to turbo my car with the m20 in it...and i know the 2.7 stroker is stupid if your car is a i already but my crank was fucked from lack of oil(via lack of drain plug from a dumb bezzy) and i had a connection to a cheap eta lower end so thats why i did it vs leaving the i an i...no one really cares if you have a eta because all your doing is bashing on them for wanting more on a budget anyways if we could all do 24v swaps im sure we would but we dont all have $500 24v swaps...which reminds me how good can a $500 dollar 24v really be? no rebuild just throw it in right??? or its pre-rebuilt right thats what the crazy bastard told you as you picked it up?

[884door]

I say if you're gonna go through the trouble get some superETA pistons.
Someone here made 155whp on a superETA/i combo with an ebay chip. Thats a HUGE difference over a stock eta that makes what, 100ish whp?

Rebuilding an m20 is a waste of time/money IMO, you can do a 24v swap for less, not to mention even if you're m20 is broken down and needs a rebuild you could replace it with another used one for a few hundred dollars.

[lennon]

well from what i can see dyno numbers vary. the second guy to post one got pretty good results (150hp 150trq i think), maybe the power was helped by his head being shaved so much. the OP of that thread is making 10 less whp and trq, and basically rebuilt the bottom end and is running megasquirt. should be able to get more power from that but maybe it wasnt tuned well. he said he spent 500 on the bottom rebuild. you can get a 24v for less than that, not to mention the cost of MS.

like anything, i guess the power output will vary depending on the condition of parts involved and how good of a chip/how well its tuned. you are very right about it being a good way to get more rpms out of the eta. however, i have an i head and enough parts to make the whole swap happen to my non-731 eta, and i never have. must be some reason why...

[mikegar]

so now the budget stroker is "for boost"? it is good for that in the sense that its cheap and flows better than eta and lowers your compression. however, 90 percent of people "building" one are not boosting, they want a cheap, fast, easy way to make their eta motor better. low-compression is a side effect of that and does not matter to them because its better than their eta motor was. that doesnt make it better than an i motor, or equal to an m50.

i have an e30 with an eta motor, and i have one with an eta bottom end and 731 head running motronic 1.3. i could have more easily sourced an 885 head but why would i want low ass compression? i am now about to swap an s50 into the 731 car.

as for the 2.7 + 885 head running with an m50... if this is true why doesnt everyone (you included) run this setup instead of an m50? do you have any dynos of this motor? im interested. are you saying an eta bottom end (not seta) with an 885 head and 1.3, makes more power than a stock i motor?

i really dont care what you guys do to your motors... just pointing out facts. wait for a 731 head or get seta pistons if you want a cheap N/A 2.7i that makes decent power. but you might as well be throwing money at a 24v or real m20 build instead. if you wanted an m20b25 you shouldve got one! you cant just turn your eta into one.

the dyno numbers you are looking for are posted in the link i gave you. no the e block and 885 head combo doesnt make more power than a stock i. but you seem to be neglecting an important figure. the torque figure. i do agree that the 731 head is the ideal m20 head. but finding a head that wasnt released here is a bit hard.

in real world application the 885 head on the e block with i electronics yields you a car that is faster than a stock e30 325i. not by much but still faster. while for an i it would not be anywhere near worth it, the e is really woken up with this combo.

[lennon]

so now the budget stroker is "for boost"? it is good for that in the sense that its cheap and flows better than eta and lowers your compression. however, 90 percent of people "building" one are not boosting, they want a cheap, fast, easy way to make their eta motor better. low-compression is a side effect of that and does not matter to them because its better than their eta motor was. that doesnt make it better than an i motor, or equal to an m50.

i have an e30 with an eta motor, and i have one with an eta bottom end and 731 head running motronic 1.3. i could have more easily sourced an 885 head but why would i want low ass compression? i am now about to swap an s50 into the 731 car.

as for the 2.7 + 885 head running with an m50... if this is true why doesnt everyone (you included) run this setup instead of an m50? do you have any dynos of this motor? im interested. are you saying an eta bottom end (not seta) with an 885 head and 1.3, makes more power than a stock i motor?

i really dont care what you guys do to your motors... just pointing out facts. wait for a 731 head or get seta pistons if you want a cheap N/A 2.7i that makes decent power. but you might as well be throwing money at a 24v or real m20 build instead. if you wanted an m20b25 you shouldve got one! you cant just turn your eta into one.

[hotballs]

No comment on that statement, but being said, I know of car with eta block and head that I put together that would run with my m50. Is it worth it? Yes, but I have since stopped playing around a built an s50.

This thread should just end with that statement....but no one answered if there is a diagram or picture of where the extra holes need to be drilled for the oil passages to run a 7 bearing cam in an eta head.

I guess you could compare the two heads side by side, but I don't have an i and eta head lying around.

[EtaSport]

you guys just keep on swapping 885 heads onto your regular eta blocks... enjoy that awesome compression and pistons that dont match the combustion chamber... the options by price are: swap in m20b25, swap in m5x/s5x motor, build real m20 stroker. i head on eta bottom is not even in the list, see?

No comment on that statement, but being said, I know of car with eta block and head that I put together that would run with my m50. Is it worth it? Yes, but I have since stopped playing around a built an s50.

[5KWattson]

you guys just keep on swapping 885 heads onto your regular eta blocks... enjoy that awesome compression and pistons that dont match the combustion chamber... the options by price are: swap in m20b25, swap in m5x/s5x motor, build real m20 stroker. i head on eta bottom is not even in the list, see?

you seem angry as if you wish you had done the same previous to everyone else...well fyi i am doin the I head on my I block with eta pistons rods and crank. guess what if ppl are building their motors for low compression then guess what...hint hint they are going for boost...i know i am =) so sorry to rain on your parade but yes the eta internals are a cheap way of making a stroker for boost get over it.