Racing Dynamics Ireland Engineering repro headers purchase issues/feedback..

[zaq123]

I really wanna buy these headers but IE says its normal and you say it will crack. IE has a reputation, I want to trust what you say but I'm skeptical of some random internet guy. Do you have any hard data or qualifications to support what you are saying?

Not sure I’m following your request...are you asking to submit a copy of AWS cert or provide you with the certified inspection report? Some random internet guy wanted these headers based on their description, bought them, inspected them, shipped them back. He also shared pictures with the forum, free of charge. There are pictures on IE website, now there are more pictures in this post...for your viewing pleasure. You have a couple of choices here: do your your own research on proper back purged welds or......purchase a liability of CWI to evaluate these welds for you and provide you with inspection reports, prove you their qualifications. Those things will require your time or money. Until then.....these forums are all about one random internet guy reading what another internet guy wrote or looking at some random pictures from zero clue perspective

[02tradition]

It takes some more time and most importantly skills to do it correctly. Did anyone noticed unmelted filler rod protruding inside the joint in pic #4?
Another factor to keep in mind if offering products for sale is a quality control.

I got a follow up from IE:
response direct from the builder: "There’s are two pictures where there is some sugaring but my guess is that is on the flange which is normal. The rest of them are fine, it doesn’t always pop all the way through when using filler but the dabs you see sneaking through are just regular back purged welds. If he wants aerospace consistency he will need to pay the same prices as my one-off clients which are 2000-3500"

On which I replied:

Andrew, Thanks for the follow up. Take it for what it’s worth but those welds are no good and I suggest to find a different manufacturer/welder and pick his brain if you think I have some sort of bias (I bought them to own and not to ship them back in hopes to lose money, let’s keep that in mind). Besides back purge issues, there is no proper weld penetration on most of those joints and they will surely fail in this application due to created stress concentration points. Maybe his current setting too low, travel speed to high or bad torch angle ....? There was no expectation of aerospace quality or even sanitary grade welds. However i think it is reasonable to expect the product which will last. Just trying to help...it’s a shame ...this could be a winner..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really wanna buy these headers but IE says its normal and you say it will crack. IE has a reputation, I want to trust what you say but I'm skeptical of some random internet guy. Do you have any hard data or qualifications to support what you are saying?

[RobE30]

Curious if Andrew will follow up further. Hell, I wish IE would sell a set of headers in pieces and I could have my local fabshop weld them for me.

[zaq123]

It takes some more time and most importantly skills to do it correctly. Did anyone noticed unmelted filler rod protruding inside the joint in pic #4?
Another factor to keep in mind if offering products for sale is a quality control.

I got a follow up from IE:
response direct from the builder: "There’s are two pictures where there is some sugaring but my guess is that is on the flange which is normal. The rest of them are fine, it doesn’t always pop all the way through when using filler but the dabs you see sneaking through are just regular back purged welds. If he wants aerospace consistency he will need to pay the same prices as my one-off clients which are 2000-3500"

On which I replied:

Andrew, Thanks for the follow up. Take it for what it’s worth but those welds are no good and I suggest to find a different manufacturer/welder and pick his brain if you think I have some sort of bias (I bought them to own and not to ship them back in hopes to lose money, let’s keep that in mind). Besides back purge issues, there is no proper weld penetration on most of those joints and they will surely fail in this application due to created stress concentration points. Maybe his current setting too low, travel speed to high or bad torch angle ....? There was no expectation of aerospace quality or even sanitary grade welds. However i think it is reasonable to expect the product which will last. Just trying to help...it’s a shame ...this could be a winner..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[digger]

i think the customer has certain expectations that for $850 the butt welds are consistent if it was $200 then a different story, it does not cost anymore to do partial or full pen for this product as its not like weld preps are needed or the welders need to be qualified etc. So why wouldn't you do full pen, as it is a far superior joint in its resistance to cracking especially in thin material so would theoretically end up with less warranty issues and unhappy customers. it costs a little extra for the back purge but the whole reason for choosing stainless is corrosion resistance so doesn't make that much sense to not back purge.

[02tradition]

YMMV...Butt pjp with austenitic 304 in high fatigue and vibration applications??? IMHO, pjp all day if it’s a slip joint design like Federicos RD. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you a welder or something?

[zaq123]

zaq123 Can you explain why CJP is absolutely necessary in this instance? Why is PJP unacceptable in your opinion?

YMMV...Butt pjp with austenitic 304 in high fatigue and vibration applications??? IMHO, pjp all day if it’s a slip joint design like Federicos RD. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[02tradition]

zaq123 Can you explain why CJP is absolutely necessary in this instance? Why is PJP unacceptable in your opinion?

[cunninglinguist]

I thought Wuhan Engineering had improved their poor production quality from 15 years ago, but looks like such is not the case.

[zaq123]

But they looked great on Instagram.

That's why I got them, welds looked ok in the pic. Knowing the importance of back purging the stainless tubing, I decided to inspect those welds from the inside.....after all IE does use word "back purged welds" in the item description....Well not only those welds don't look back purged, they don't look like welds are fully penetrate those joints.

Look at this video .....you can fast forward to 15:20 if you don't have time. This video is a good example what properly penetrated and back purged welds should look like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2T1diKBcYI

[cory58]

This thread should be in the feedback section. Good info. Wouldn't want someone to miss it here.

[RobE30]

But they looked great on Instagram. That's a big bummer coming from IE. Thought they were more of a stand-up company. Sad.... Appreciate the feedback man.

[zaq123]

I was considering ordering their M30 headers for my swap but I might just get schniedermann after this.

There was a set of RD headers from the last group buy for sale somewhere. Put level of IE customer service and missing parts aside, my biggest concern with their headers is the future unavoidable weld cracking down the road when foil thick bead will finally give out. Considering trouble in takes to fabricate down pipes etc for these....I didn't even want to keep these as a test subject. Unfortunately, IE doesn't want to acknowledge the issue and improve their manufacturing What is a shame!

[Slybeanx]

Provided these pictures to IE in the attempt to possibly help to address the manufacturing issue and correct their process....little did I know My communication with Andrew Athorum of Ireland Engineering: Me: Andrew, I received my order today. Thank you. However there is a problem: Your description of headers states the following: "They come with stainless steel V-band clamps and additional weld on flanges.” Both V bands and flanges are missing from this shipment. (2 v bands and 2 flanges are missing). Please advise. Me: Andrew, To add to my previous email with missing parts…after further inspection, the following was discovered: I ran my borescope to inspect welds and found that you welder failed to properly back purge the tubing (a lot of weld are sugared). Also it looks like TIG settings weren’t properly selected which resulted in poor joint penetration (see attached pictures). I recommend to discuss it with your manufacturer and improve the quality control. In the mean time, can you please email me a return label so I can ship these headers back promptly? Thank you Response from Andrew: If you wish to return them that is fine but you will have to pay the return shipping yourself. Me: wish I don’t have to return them, obviously. Could we agree that they are defective and not properly welded and that you need to correct your manufacturing process or you believe this is normal and that’s how they are meant to be? Response from Andrew: We believe it to be normal. Headers are going back to IE come Monday. Looks like the whole ordeal will end up costing ~$70 for lost shipping .... A few of you asked me about my feedback on these.....Hope you find it helpful.

I was considering ordering their M30 headers for my swap but I might just get schniedermann after this.

[zaq123]

So far my dealing with IE was ...........

I mentioned to them that my review of these headers will be shared with E30 community. IE promptly responded with a possibility of restoring fees upon their "returned item inspection".....they are completely ignoring the fact that the item was missing parts and the fault lies with IE..... even if those unacceptable welds are done to their " acceptable standard" . I'm yet to hear words like "sorry for the inconvenience" or "can we send you a replacement to make it right" or.....


Don't they say,....it is easy to be nice when everything is easy.....once there is an issue, true colors are showing