Any more electric e30 conversions?

[ZeKahr]

With this thread back at the top and receiving some good posts, I'm going to chip in. It's not about the "maturity" of E30 owners or the money, it's about what an E30 is. An E30 is a cool old driver's car. It is relatively light and in its best iterations has an I6 that sounds good (if you don't put a tinny sounding exhaust on it), a crappy shifting manual transmission, and relatively good handling. To EV swap an E30 ruins everything it is good at aside from looking good and only stands to gain one thing: acceleration. The collector wants an original car so the value is ruined. The driving enthusiast wants a light, engaging car that is fun in the twisties and the weight of an EV swap and loss of manual gearbox ruins that. People who want a fast car find themselves having to leave no stone unturned since the chassis is just not suited for a lot of power and can't fit much tire without butchering the car. Only the EV lover or drag racer will be pleased at the result of an EV swap and there are better choices if you just want sheer acceleration so the pool of people who want to do it is pretty small. As an aside, any potential low maintenance level of an EV is offset by the time and money spent swapping the car in the first place. If you're just in it to do something because you can and because you want to, like me putting a built 3L and an S366 in my E34 just to have a sleeper DD, all bets are off, but that narrows the appeal to special people.

My opinion, when concerning American market models, is that the whole "E30 = driver's car" ethos applies only to the late models (specifically the 325i(s) and the 318is). They got the engines that are desirable to driving enthusiasts (M20B25 and M42B18) and the plastic bumpers look sporty yet cheap compared to the chrome bumpers on the early models. Those might as well be left the way they are (or 24V swapped, I guess).

Now imagine swapping an EV motor into something like this black and chrome 1986 Eta. From a superficial looks perspective, nothing about this car screams "driver's car" to me. It looks like an old-school businessman's or Wall St banker's car; these days it's more of a head-turner in the right colors (Schwarz with chrome trim and a wine red interior) that you can drive to Ruth's Chris or Wolfgang's. The whole ethos of the Eta was to be an economical efficient (it's in the fucking name) car that looked snooty and expensive (a 1986 Toyota Corolla in comparison looks cheap and pedestrian compared to this Eta). They were never intended to be driven fast or hard, the only issue was that they were high-maintenance (timing belt every 60k miles, valve adjustments every 15k miles) despite being "economical". An small electric motor allowing for 60-70 MPH cruising and a small battery giving a max 50-60 miles of range would be cost efficient enough in a few years to turn this into a low-maintenance head-turning machine. The electric motor will be 3-4 times as efficient as the Eta engine (especially at 20 MPH in the city where everyone can really stare at you) are require virtually no maintenance. Something like this will have mass appeal to a group of people that are neither collectors nor driving enthusiasts; I'm talking about the Instagram flexxer/clout chaser/look at me crowd. Hemmels already did what I'm talking about with a Mercedes Pagoda, although they screwed up by giving it too much horsepower for a car that's all about "going zero to 60 mph as slowly as possible, so everyone can see you in it"

[rturbo 930]

My opinion, when concerning American market models, is that the whole "E30 = driver's car" ethos applies only to the late models (specifically the 325i(s) and the 318is). They got the engines that are desirable to driving enthusiasts (M20B25 and M42B18) and the plastic bumpers look sporty yet cheap compared to the chrome bumpers on the early models. Those might as well be left the way they are (or 24V swapped, I guess).

The ETA is a few simple mods from being a great driver's car, to say that a late model is so much better suited to that than an early model is just inaccurate. Just takes a few more steps to get to the same goal, and an 'i' motor swap is a lot easier than an EV conversion.

An small electric motor allowing for 60-70 MPH cruising and a small battery giving a max 50-60 miles of range would be cost efficient enough in a few years to turn this into a low-maintenance head-turning machine. The electric motor will be 3-4 times as efficient as the Eta engine (especially at 20 MPH in the city where everyone can really stare at you) are require virtually no maintenance. Something like this will have mass appeal to a group of people that are neither collectors nor driving enthusiasts; I'm talking about the Instagram flexxer/clout chaser/look at me crowd.

60-70mph cruise and 50-60 mile range? That's a paper weight. Total waste of a vehicle. And you're talking about mass appeal for a vehicle that is no longer for the masses. Doesn't apply. And who cares what instagram influencers think anyway? Anyone so concerned with how they look in a car at the cost of anything else (like the function of their car) is not someone I'm going to seek opinion from.

[calypso rot]

My opinion, when concerning American market models, is that the whole "E30 = driver's car" ethos applies only to the late models (specifically the 325i(s) and the 318is). They got the engines that are desirable to driving enthusiasts (M20B25 and M42B18) and the plastic bumpers look sporty yet cheap compared to the chrome bumpers on the early models. Those might as well be left the way they are (or 24V swapped, I guess).

Now imagine swapping an EV motor into something like this black and chrome 1986 Eta. From a superficial looks perspective, nothing about this car screams "driver's car" to me. It looks like an old-school businessman's or Wall St banker's car; these days it's more of a head-turner in the right colors (Schwarz with chrome trim and a wine red interior) that you can drive to Ruth's Chris or Wolfgang's. The whole ethos of the Eta was to be an economical efficient (it's in the fucking name) car that looked snooty and expensive (a 1986 Toyota Corolla in comparison looks cheap and pedestrian compared to this Eta). They were never intended to be driven fast or hard, the only issue was that they were high-maintenance (timing belt every 60k miles, valve adjustments every 15k miles) despite being "economical". An small electric motor allowing for 60-70 MPH cruising and a small battery giving a max 50-60 miles of range would be cost efficient enough in a few years to turn this into a low-maintenance head-turning machine. The electric motor will be 3-4 times as efficient as the Eta engine (especially at 20 MPH in the city where everyone can really stare at you) are require virtually no maintenance. Something like this will have mass appeal to a group of people that are neither collectors nor driving enthusiasts; I'm talking about the Instagram flexxer/clout chaser/look at me crowd. Hemmels already did what I'm talking about with a Mercedes Pagoda, although they screwed up by giving it too much horsepower for a car that's all about "going zero to 60 mph as slowly as possible, so everyone can see you in it"

When the eta was released in the USA it was indeed seen and marketed as a sporty car. Contemporary Ads called it the hot rod of polite society. And in the 1983 Motorweek Review they say, "simply put, BMW has now built a hotrod" when talking about a 325e .

[82eye]

a couple local gang bangers got their heads whacked up and their asses arrested when they tried to jack an audi. idiots couldn't drive standard and had to run for it. that's enough of a reason to leave the car a dino burning classic.

[MrBurgundy]

With this thread back at the top and receiving some good posts, I'm going to chip in. It's not about the "maturity" of E30 owners or the money, it's about what an E30 is. An E30 is a cool old driver's car. It is relatively light and in its best iterations has an I6 that sounds good (if you don't put a tinny sounding exhaust on it), a crappy shifting manual transmission, and relatively good handling. To EV swap an E30 ruins everything it is good at aside from looking good and only stands to gain one thing: acceleration. The collector wants an original car so the value is ruined. The driving enthusiast wants a light, engaging car that is fun in the twisties and the weight of an EV swap and loss of manual gearbox ruins that. People who want a fast car find themselves having to leave no stone unturned since the chassis is just not suited for a lot of power and can't fit much tire without butchering the car. Only the EV lover or drag racer will be pleased at the result of an EV swap and there are better choices if you just want sheer acceleration so the pool of people who want to do it is pretty small. As an aside, any potential low maintenance level of an EV is offset by the time and money spent swapping the car in the first place. If you're just in it to do something because you can and because you want to, like me putting a built 3L and an S366 in my E34 just to have a sleeper DD, all bets are off, but that narrows the appeal to special people.

Aint that the truth.

EVs are gay soulless appliances. Why pervert something so great, like the e30?

EV swapping an e30 probably appeals to a demographic that kinda likes cars, but cares more about looks and jerking themselves off at cars and coffee by telling everyone their e30 is a electric than actually driving a sports car like a sports car.

[digger]

Can you EV wannabes find some other cars to trash besides the e30 please…ffs

[ZeKahr]

Can you EV wannabes find some other cars to trash besides the e30 please…ffs

The guys who engine swapped them (mainly with E36 engines) already trashed them. So the damage has already been done.

And no, I already have ideas of EV swapping an E30 (probably a project-grade one) in a few years muahahaha

[rturbo 930]

The guys who engine swapped them (mainly with E36 engines) already trashed them. So the damage has already been done.

And no, I already have ideas of EV swapping an E30 (probably a project-grade one) in a few years muahahaha

Not exactly difficult to undo a 24V swap, so not much damage done really. Silly to call them trashed.

[ZeKahr]

Not exactly difficult to undo a 24V swap, so not much damage done really. Silly to call them trashed.

Okay, so what would be difficult about doing an EV-swap then? Most of the ones I’ve seen done with classic BMWs (2002s, E30s) involve bolting the motor via an adapter plate to a manual transmission and mounting a battery box either in the trunk or the engine bay. Looks fairly easy to undo to me

And most of those 24V swapped cars were built with hotrodding intentions and driven abusively, so yeah they were trashed in my opinion (most of them have trashy looking styling customizations too).

If I were EV swapping an E30 my intention for doing it would be to make the car easier to live, reduce the amount of maintenance it needs, reduce the chance of something breaking (there are enough things that break all over the car), that will prevent the car from driving, and not some Bobo hotrodding project (like that Tesla-swapped vert and most 24V swaps)

[roguetoaster]

Okay, so what would be difficult about doing an EV-swap then? Most of the ones I’ve seen done with classic BMWs (2002s, E30s) involve bolting the motor via an adapter plate to a manual transmission and mounting a battery box either in the trunk or the engine bay. Looks fairly easy to undo to me

And most of those 24V swapped cars were built with hotrodding intentions and driven abusively, so yeah they were trashed in my opinion (most of them have trashy looking styling customizations too).

If I were EV swapping an E30 my intention for doing it would be to make the car easier to live, reduce the amount of maintenance it needs, reduce the chance of something breaking (there are enough things that break all over the car), that will prevent the car from driving, and not some Bobo hotrodding project (like that Tesla-swapped vert and most 24V swaps)

That E30 vert looked well done, and it was probably too fast for you.

If someone can't maintain an ICE car they also can't maintain an EV.

Fun cars are meant to be driven hard, it won't break them. Hard driving is not necessarily abusive driving.

You do understand how much space batteries take up in order to get any real range, right?

Why do you like E30s again?

[ZeKahr]

That E30 vert looked well done, and it was probably too fast for you.

The styling on that car was not well done. The wheels were overly huge, the headlights were smoked (a ghetto look IMO), and the interior is too custom for my liking - especially the dash; he did that all wrong using what looks like alcantara. With an EV conversion, I'm a "looks stock, but isn't" guy. Another thing: he put up an "abuse compilation" video on his BAT ad where he was doing burnouts and other stupid horseshit. That is not the kind of person I would be willing to buy an E30 from unless I got a massive discount on it (the seller must pay the price for his dumbassery in my eyes)

And yeah, I don't need Tesla levels of power in an electric E30. I only need enough power to keep up with traffic, whatever that number is (my guess is 60-80 hp would be sufficient for me).

If someone can't maintain an ICE car they also can't maintain an EV.

EVs need significantly less maintenance than an ICE (much more parts are solid state and don't rely on fluids [which leak out] or on entropic processes like combustion). You mainly need to replace tires and washer fluid (I sparingly use my windshield washer). Of course the modern ones made by companies like Tesla and all will be more complex than a "dumb" EV I would be building out of an E30. I'll just have a shop do the tires.

Fun cars are meant to be driven hard, it won't break them. Hard driving is not necessarily abusive driving.

IDK about that. I've seen enough threads on here and other BMW boards where the guy drove the car hard and something major broke (sometimes the car needing a new engine/trans).

You do understand how much space batteries take up in order to get any real range, right?

Yes I am aware of that, which is why I wouldn't bother building an EV E30 to be interstate capable - it would be more of an around-town car. You should be able to put a battery box with 4-6 Tesla batteries in the trunk (I've seen this done with an 02 conversion). A smaller battery also charges a lot faster than a bigger one. Most cars apparently sit idle 95% of the time and are driven only about 5% of the time. So that 95% of time might as well be spent charging IMO. So in a 24-hour day, that's like 1.2 hours of actual driving. In that case, 50-60 miles of range daily would be enough for me. I'd be okay with plugging in every day so I have enough range for the next day. And now that I work from home, I don’t need to so long drives anymore.

Another thing, I'm waiting on solid state batteries (SSBs) to arrive on the market before I do a conversion. SSBs will be much more energy dense than existing Lithium ion batteries and will take up much less space than Lithium ion batteries for the same range. Charging infrastructure also needs to be more widespread too.

Why do you like E30s again?

Well, they're small and easy to parallel park in tight city centers, easy to see out of, I like the classic German looks, the business-y styling of the interior and exterior, and I liked the way the engine looked in the engine bay (really only in a Schwarz car since these engines have aluminum valve covers and intake manifolds which contrasts well with Schwarz). Now that I have experience with these cars and with engines/transmissions of this age, those reasons have shifted more to "just buy the car if you like its interior/exterior styling".

[rturbo 930]

Okay, so what would be difficult about doing an EV-swap then? Most of the ones I’ve seen done with classic BMWs (2002s, E30s) involve bolting the motor via an adapter plate to a manual transmission and mounting a battery box either in the trunk or the engine bay. Looks fairly easy to undo to me

And most of those 24V swapped cars were built with hotrodding intentions and driven abusively, so yeah they were trashed in my opinion (most of them have trashy looking styling customizations too).

If I were EV swapping an E30 my intention for doing it would be to make the car easier to live, reduce the amount of maintenance it needs, reduce the chance of something breaking (there are enough things that break all over the car), that will prevent the car from driving, and not some Bobo hotrodding project (like that Tesla-swapped vert and most 24V swaps)

Not that I spend much time looking at EV swaps, but a lot of them seem to involve hacking up the car to accommodate either motors, particularly those using rear mounted tesla motors, or a large battery bank. I'm sure it could also be done in a reversible way, but I'm not really seeing that.

I'll echo what roguetoaster said, driving a car hard isn't necessarily abuse. Also, expecting a huge discount on a car because the owner did a burnout is also ridiculous, spinning the tires until they smoke does not damage the car in any way, unless the driver isn't paying attention and lets it overheat.

IDK about that. I've seen enough threads on here and other BMW boards where the guy drove the car hard and something major broke (sometimes the car needing a new engine/trans).

Yeah, so you replace the broken part, and then the car isn't damaged anymore. If you drive your car hard, sometimes things break, or they wear out a bit faster. That doesn't constitute abuse, unless your idea of abuse is anything beyond a leisurely drive.

If you want an E30 for its luxury qualities, then honestly I think an EV swap makes sense, since it would be smoother and quieter than any ICE alternative, but I think you may literally be the only person on this board who does not care about spirited driving at all.

[82eye]

there are gorgeous ev's in e30 size becoming available if you want the experience without destroying a classic. the opel manta ev has fantastic style and would be cheaper to get into than an e30 conversion.




it even comes with a manual box for those that want one. the manual box is a bit gimmicky as you can run the car in any forward gear as fast as most things already.

[ZeKahr]

How about I just EV swap an E21 instead of an E30? Would that make you guys happy and calm your nerves? I wouldn’t be “destroying” an E30 that way (nevermind that a good chunk of the ones for sale are already destroyed). No one seems to give a crap about E21s (they’re the “Gen X” of classic BMWs between the “Boomer” 2002 and the “Millennial” E30 if you catch my drift). And the E21 looks close enough to an E30

The Opel… ehhhhhhh not really feeling the looks.

[82eye]

How about I just EV swap an E21 instead of an E30? Would that make you guys happy and calm your nerves? I wouldn’t be “destroying” an E30 that way (nevermind that a good chunk of the ones for sale are already destroyed). No one seems to give a crap about E21s (they’re the “Gen X” of classic BMWs between the “Boomer” 2002 and the “Millennial” E30 if you catch my drift). And the E21 looks close enough to an E30

The Opel… ehhhhhhh not really feeling the looks.

the big problem with any ev swap comes down to weight. i'm not sure either the e21 or the e30 has the suspension to do it. a local university is doing an ev swap into a volvo wagon. they need the wagon space to accommodate the battery pack and have done major work beefing up the suspension to carry the weight.

edit : changing the suspension on either of those cars takes away what makes them decent. there's a couple e30's been converted already, i'd check too see what they've done to the suspension.