New cars are so Ugly

[Threehz]

I definitely agree all the new cars out right now will age and become old cars eventually. The fact of the matter is very much like what Phillip said.

First of all, new cars are built to break. That alone means that in 25 to 30 years from now, there will be a lot less cars built today surviving, comapred to 1980's cars surviving up to today if you can follow me. Many new car owners I know frequent the dealership because of problems springing up in less then 20,000 miles of use. Not just little things either, things like brake lines popping, fuel pumps dying, and some unknown problems (I'll guess electronic until they figure them out).

That brings up another huge issue, electronics. Modern vehicles use so much electronics, not only for usual use like lights and gauges, but to completely control the vehicles, and in many cases drive or "drive-correct" the vehicle. I've grown up around electronics and let me tell you one thing about them. They break. They also like to do weird things, for no reason. Especially the more complicated they become. Anyone who has ever done programming knows exactly what I'm talking about. Now when you get to the point where you have programs controlling many if not all the systems in a vehicle, combined with the environment that vehicles are and travel through, and all the plugs and wiring that is associated with this. Dear god it's like watching a nightmare unfold.

I had a fuse blow that fused quite a few systems in my car including most the gauges and the idle control and fuel delivery. The gauges made driving a little uneasy and the idle control and fuel delivery literally made my car run badly or not at all. It took me three days to find the short and I only found it because it was in a very obvious place.

Now imagine a modern car with steer-correction going down the freeway, it's a nice 2012 model and the year is 2014, only about 24,000 miles on the car. There's is a vast sea of wires crawling throughout and around the car and one wire happens to turn a corner around a sheet metal edge (where the short in my car came from). This was fine, except after 24,000 miles of rubbing against that metal edge the rubber shielding gets very worn. So there you are driving down the freeway and you go over a little bump, the shielding splits causing the wire to short and the steering correction system goes wonky, forcing your car to swerve right off the freeway at 75mph.

If you and your family are lucky enough to survive, how long would it take you, let alone a staff of technicians to find that little wire among the thousands? An even thinner chance is that the technician who repairs it will preemptively fix all the other wires which will soon meet the same fate as the first?

Remember the Toyota recalls? Think about what will happen to all these electronics in even just ten years.

Anyhow, I get carried away with this topic, my opinion is firm, and I know many people don't agree. So I'll try and get back to the topic.

What new car will in 20-30 years become a restorable enthusiast car?

One of the only new cars that looks good is the new Challengers. In 20 years when they are going for 4-5k maybe it will be a nice car to restore?

Much else though?

Maybe so, maybe in 20-30 years when there are only hybrids and electric cars available, any gasoline powered car will be cool to own.

Different strokes for different folks, mine's about 81mm and soft as a kitten.

Looooong day, time for a couple of these,

[tjts1]

New cars are so Ugly

You know it

[Threehz]

Upon google searching "new cars are ugly" I came across this fascinating article.

Why are new cars so ugly?

“Men like soft edges in the bedroom, not on the road.”

I'm getting this made into a banner, no doubt, and hanging it right above my mane.

[antil33t]

I hate mid/late 90's generic japanese cars more.



Here we have a Toyota Funcargo. Every time i go for an open road adventure, I get stuck behind one doing... 70!

[BlackbirdM3]

I have to agree, most new cars are ugly. The deck lid heights are too tall, the A,B,and C pillars are too wide, and yes, they look like crap. Not to mention they have lousy rear visibility both in the mirrors and looking out the back window. I just bought my first "modern" car last month when I bought my '88 M3. Guess what, there are a ton of things on it that I don't like. Power steering, power brakes, pretty much everything that isn't manually controlled. I can't think of a single new car that I would want to own. Not a one. I spent 3 weeks driving a friends Subi WRX and the whole time I just wanted to drive my 42 year old Datsun.

A little about my taste in cars, here are some pics,
My first car, I've built it from the ground up. A '69 Datsun 2000. I have turned pretty much every nut and bolt on the car at least once.

Following the Datsun I got a VERY rare '69 Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV, US spec. There were 640 of them built. I picked this up in Oct of '06. It had been sitting in a barn for 30 years. I had it back on the road in a month and a half.


Some A-hole rear ended me last June and totaled the car. It opened the door for me to buy the M3
And my big project, a 1959 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 101.02 series Sprint. This car happens to be a German market car. This will be back on the road some day.


What it could look like when I'm done...


Since all I know are cars that were built long before I was born, stuff on the market now is totally uninteresting and boring. For the longest time I said the only modern car that interested me was a Lotus Elise because it lacked power everything. Then I drove one and came away thinking it was a real underachiever. Heck I even got to autoX it and came away wondering what all the hype was about. I couldn't feel what the car was doing, the brakes were like an on/off switch and it understeered like a boat. I was more than happy to give the owner back his keys. I've driven Miatas, S2000s, lots of so called "hot" sports cars and time and again, I come back to my 42 year old Datsun. The driving experience is so raw but tactile that everything modern feels heavy, sloppy and totally lacking personality. I really dislike the experience of driving modern stuff. Also, I can't see out of the cars. Heck, I'm 6-1+ and I can't see behind me to back up. It drives me crazy having to take multiple tries to back into a parking spot and end up centered.
I caught a perfect display of how modern cars have increased in size and height through out the model range. At the last autoX I went to we had every generation of M3 there.



You can pretty clearly see how each successive generation has gotten bigger, wider, and taller and the rear windows just keep getting smaller, higher and harder to see out of (Holy crap my E30 M3 has some HUGE blind spots. It might be the reason I see so many people driving like idiots. Its not because they are idiots, they flat out can't see what is behind them when they change lanes or things like that.). (You can also see how the rear spoiler has gotten smaller with each generation as well ;) )

In my opinion, each generation of the M3 after the E30 has become less attractive. The wheels have gotten bigger, and the cars have become more like something out of a cartoon. I mean seriously, whats with the Tonka truck look to all the trucks these days. They look gaudy and ugly. Designers keep adding more plastic crap to the designs and the more they do, the less like a real vehicle they look. About the only designs that have stayed true to their origins are the Porsche 911,930,993,996,997, and 998. They looked good in the '60s, and still look very much the same (in shape at least) now.

I think if BMW were to release a car that looks identical to a 3.0 CS (E9) it would sell like crazy. Sure, update the interior a little, but keep the shape of the car and they would have an instant winner. Keep it the same dimensions as the original and people would be shocked by the fact that they can see out the back, and to the sides. Hell, bring back the 2002 and offer it as a bare bones car with light weight, good brakes and enough power to make it fun. No power brakes, steering, windows, seats ect. I think they might sell more than you would think.

I don't want a car with power windows, brakes, steering, computer controlled anything, its all stuff that can and will break long before it should. My M3 is really too new for me as well. I'm stuck trying to figure out if I should remove the power steering, find a way to remove the ABS, and the power brakes just so that I can feel what the car is doing. Its less enjoyable to drive than it could be for me. Many people will think I'm smoking crack, but seriously, I don't want the latest and greatest electric gizmo, or a couch cushion ride that is controlled by 5 different computers that do everything to remove the driver from the driving experience. I'm looking for the ultimate driving machine, but I'm 99% sure I'm not going to find it in a car built in the past 20 years.

Car designers these days have little clue about what looks good, or what really drives well. Thanks, I'll hang onto my 40+ year old cars and continue to drive them well after all the current stuff is recycled into more crap.

Ok, I'm done with my rant.

Will

'59 Alfa Romeo 101.02 Sprint
'69 Alfa Romeo 105.51 GTV (R.I.P)
'69 Datsun 2000 roadster (street legal vintage race car)
'87 BMW M3

[Roysneon]

As far as styling, I guess I do prefer cars that are at least 20 years old.

However, for those who complain that newer cars look "generic", most cars from the same era do look alike. Look at a 2002, 510, and corolla from the same time period. Look at an E30 M3, Delta Integrale, and a MKII Golf Rallye. Even Volvo 240s, E30s and Merc. 190e's have similar lines.

Not saying they look identical or anything, but general styling of vehicles is generally similar in specific time periods.

Just sayin.

[Threehz]

Look at how good a 510, 2002, and Corolla of the 60's look compared to a 2010-2012 Sentra, 318i and Corolla...

Will/Blackbird, you've won my heart. Also amazing first post, and damn those comparison photos are perfect! Beautiful 2000 by the way, Datsuns have a very special place in my heart as well.

@antil33t, Japan definitely has made some of the best and worst looking cars, without a doubt, of course most of their absolutely god awful looking ones are more modern ones.

[BlackbirdM3]

Yes, the look of the cars has changed over the years, however lets stop and look at some of them.
The 2002,Datsun 510, Alfa GTV, Lancia Fulvia, and the BMW E9, all had nice large greenhouses that allowed good visibility. Yes some of them were boxy and not exactly sexy, but even today, a nice one will be recognized as a good looking car. In the '80s the large boxy look was still there, as evidenced by the Toyotas, Nissans, Peugeot 505s, Volvos (that continued the look well into the mid '90s) and the E24, E28 and E30s. Again, you take a nice example of any one of those, they can look really good. I'd say the E30s (not including the M3) are the best looking of the bunch. The M3 and Mercedes 190 Cosworth and other purpose built cars are the next step up, the M3 and 190 being bitchin looking cars. The wings and box flares are there for a reason and had to be there on the production cars in order for the race cars to have them. They went from decent looking to very purpose built.
The '90s started to see things change. The early part of the decade we still had the large open greenhouses, however super cars for the masses started to find their way into the market places. The Toyota Supra, the R32,R33, and R34 Skylines, Nissan Z32 300Z, Mazda FD-RX7s and the Honda/Acura NSX. While the Skylines still largely retained the large greenhouse, the others got wider, flatter and the trunk heights started to go up. As the decade went on, the roof pillars started to get wider, and rear windows began to rotate from rear ward looking to looking more at the sky. The trunk lines went up to support the upward facing windows. About the same time someone thought that adding needlessly big wheels to a car was a good idea. To clear these, the wheel arches moved up, and in the back this pushed the rear window up more, so the trunk lines went up more (by this time rearward visibility was seriously compromised already)

Into the 2000s, more people were installing stupidly big wheels on their cars and manufacturers keyed in on that. So they started designing their cars with even bigger wheels (failing to upsize the brakes in most cases.) People didn't care that the cars actually performed worse, with longer braking distances, worse turn in (they aren't racing so who cares...) and slower 0-60 times as well as adding more weight. They wanted things to look more futuristic so usability was thrown out the window. People then had the false notion (I'm guessing originating in the US) that bigger is better, but a truck wasn't big enough to haul a full family, so they enclosed it and the SUV was born. Well, now they needed to make the SUV look cool and be lighter to get better fuel mileage. Out came the plastic body parts. Since plastic is cheaper than steel, more plastic was used. That was fine because more interesting shapes could be molded for less money. People bought these cars based on looks rather than usability and once designers figured out they could design and build ugly cars and people would buy them (Toyota Yaris, Scion, Prius, pick your Nissan, Subi, Mazda ect.) Along side the eventual decline of good design we had the "lets add pointless gizmos to the car to get buyers back who think the car is ugly" (The Pontiac Aztek being the ultimate display of this.) The worlds need for computer controlled everything (cool factor) drove a widespread movement from manual operation to computer controlled. People bought into it (lets drink the cool-aid) and supported it. Rather than buying what was functionally better, they went with bling and settled for mediocracy with the hope that something better would come along shortly and what they had now would be thrown away (nothing like planned obsolescence. Things are designed to fail so people will buy the new version even if its a POS because its new and the old design broke by design.)

Thanks, I'll pass. Give me manual winding windows, ect. Like I said, people will think I'm smoking crack, but thats my right and you will likely never see me willingly drive anything new. I'd give some of the ultra exotic cars a whirl, but my guess is that I'll be looking for my Datsun or Alfa in pretty short order.

Will

[Threehz]

I do like the R34 Skyline and the 300ZX. The 300ZX was the last real Z, even the Z32. The Z32 will always be one of the most incredible cars ever made just for what it was during it's time, even though it has way too much electronically controlled.

The Skyline is a classic and also has a place in my heart, a Wangan classic.

Now my question is how much safety regulations affect present day car designs. I mean the new Mustang and Camaro are both bloated, however imo the Challenger isn't too bad. I think it's entirely possible to make new cars that look good and are real cars, minimal electronics. I would love to start a car manufacturing company, that makes real cars, no bloating, no excessive electronics, good looking, and most importantly, the most solid build quality possible. Make cars that are logically built for DIY work, and have plenty of parts supply ready for reasonable prices. You can still make quite economical cars that look amazing, and perform great.