Help covince my friend to get a E30!

[Marvin_Hecht]

I'm sorry but any of you who think that all E30's are loud or uncomfortable, have you driven a stock eta? I know that people on this board think that eta's suck, but they are do the the distinction of being quiet. BMW made the eta engine for the American market, for people who think that hearing engine noises means your car is broken or being over-revved.

Before I put in my chip you could not hear my engine at all inside the cabin--the hum of the fuel pump from the rear seat was the main sound you hear. ///Mpower got into my car and asked me "Is the engine on?" and it was. He could not believe how quiet it was --he had never experienced that before. Neither had I heard what an e30 with extra-market muffler sounded-
I didn't know that e30s were capable of sounding as "sporty" as they do with a Supersprint or other aftermarket muffler. Now with a chip my engine actually emits a bit of a "roaring" sound and I favor that, but sometime I miss the quietness.

As far as comfort goes, my eta is plenty comfortable, and moreso with the sport seats from an es that I put in. The handling is still very nice and crisp, and much more "fun" than my parents Accord. All Honda's that I have driven are just very plain and boring-the handling seems to be neither sporty nor gushy, just well plain-jane.

[motorprestige]

NSX and S2K sure. maybe the ITR.

Not Civics, Accords, and Integras.

Civics, and integras have a rabid, performance focused following that will chew some very highly tuned rear-drive germans up, spit them out, then proceed to produce in excess of 100hp per litre all damn day long. And no, they arent concentrating on acceleration. Maybe you should check out www.jdmcivic.com because they are quite capable little cars. Don't get me wrong though, i would still take an e30 over any honda, ANY day. Humble pie tastes like shit... I know...:finger:

[Rob]

NSX/S2000 defiinitely, FWD Type-Rs yes (but to a lesser degree), anything else no. I hate to sound closed-minded, but FWD is simply not designed to be sports-oriented. Why do you drive a 318is anyway? It seems like the only thing you like about it is the gas mileage.-

So its not designed that way, but that doesn't mean it can't be used that way. How come so many fwd's kick ass at autocross, because they aren't designed to be sports oriented? I have one because they are a fun to drive car, and cheap *shrug* If I'd really thought about it, I'd have something else.

so a 1980 Buick can potentially be an enthusiast car? To me, an enthusiast car is one that does not compromise in terms of sportiness nearly as much as a "normal" car. Run-of-the-mill civics and integras compromise a lot.

well thats your definition, not mine. By that definition, its the tool that makes the craftsmen, not the other way around, which is bogus. I've seen some super fast 80s buicks at the drag strip by the way. Not my style by any stretch, but I can respect the work they put into it...

Here's a couple of scenarios:
-A middle class 16 year old gets a 94 civic coupe for his first cars. He likes to get his hands dirty, doesn't have a shit load of money, so he works on the civic. Some of his mods are good, others aren't, but its his car and he loves tinkering with it.
-A Bank of America executive reads about the new Elise in Road and Track, thinks its cool looking, buys one, and drives it to the office once or twice a week.

Which is the enthusiast?

I've been making these arguments for years though, its not the first time I've had to defend against ignorance or blind arrogance disguised as snobbery. Most of the time people simply don't know any better, and repeat typical forum bullshit. Other times people have a chip on their shoulder because they got rolled by a ricebox. Other people are just plain racist. Whatever it is, hating gets no one anywhere. Oh well.

[Dave]

Civics, and integras have a rabid, performance focused following that will chew some very highly tuned rear-drive germans up, spit them out, then proceed to produce in excess of 100hp per litre all damn day long. And no, they arent concentrating on acceleration. Maybe you should check out www.jdmcivic.com because they are quite capable little cars. Don't get me wrong though, i would still take an e30 over any honda, ANY day. Humble pie tastes like shit... I know...:finger:

There are so many go fast parts for Hondas - and they are so cheap compared to what is out ther for BMW. Gratned, there is a lot of crap out there as well - but one can make a very nice honda.

[Charlie]

I've been making these arguments for years though, its not the first time I've had to defend against ignorance or blind arrogance disguised as snobbery. Most of the time people simply don't know any better, and repeat typical forum bullshit. Other times people have a chip on their shoulder because they got rolled by a ricebox. Other people are just plain racist. Whatever it is, hating gets no one anywhere. Oh well.

Damn Rob, that was pretty poignant.

-Charlie

[e9nine]

Why do you people modify your cars to be superior in auto-x, track or high performance driving environments and complain about them on highway trips?

To the thread poster, NEVER recommend an e30 to someone who isn't willing to wrench unless they are a check book modder. I have a lot of friends who like e30s but not everyone is meant to own one. No offense meant.

[Ryan Stewart]

Why the hell is it so important that your friend drives an E30? Shit if I was going to recommend a BMW I would at least find him an E36 unless he was just too poor.

My E30 is awesome on long trips but I compromised on my setup to keep it a daily car. I will admit that the Hondas I have been in (mostly 2000-on) are louder and shittier inside than my car but 90% of the blame goes to the owner not putting shit back on right after installing some speakers or something.

I dont understand why people immediately associate Honda with these idiot kids. Just because most of the fucked up cars are Hondas doesnt mean most Hondas are fucked up cars, that is flawed logic. My bro just bought one of the new 6-speed Accords and save for the backseat and the cable shifting system its a pretty nice car.

[hamann318is]

So its not designed that way, but that doesn't mean it can't be used that way.

I'm going to argee with Rob. As long as the owner cares about his own car, why can't the car be an enthusist's car? There are some very undesirable cars that have a very strong following.

I frown upon the view that many people on the general BMW boards take. Most people on the internet think "I drive a BMW, that's superior to everything." It really bothers me because it is a really biast view to take. It would be like me saying, "I like the quirks of an E30, so fuck all Hondas." Just because one person likes something over another, doesn't mean that theirs is better.

[bmwm3n528]

something is highly ironic here, I just cant place it....

Hey, hey...it took me a while, but the ITR 'baptised' me.

[parkerbink]

My car is very comfortable on long trips. My 97 Acura Cl is pretty fast and very comfortable. It is 100% stock as it is my Wife's daily driver and I have no wish to hear about something I changed not being ok. Honda makes good cars as long as they are used for the purpose of their design.

[Dave]

When I bought my IS300, I was looking at non-M e46s at the same time. I found that the Toyota product was nearly identical in performance and looked to be more reliable and less maintenance intensive. And with anything newer than an e30, you are looking at a lot of things that you will want the shop to do instead of DIY.

Toyota and Honda make damn good cars. And unless your friend wants to get his hands dirty, he is better off with a Toyota or Honda as most of them can take much more abuse/neglect and keep on going.

[Jordan325iC]

Haha, I didn't mean to offend hondas. My big point was this: Unless your friend has his heart set on an e30, the problems related to a 15 year old vehicle will probably leave him disatisfied.

I really meant to say that old cars are almost always enthusiast cars, because anybody in there right mind would walk away from 15+ cars because they will inevitably break, have problems, cost money, ect... we're crazy like that. I don't suppose his friend is looking to buy an 80's honda, so he might be happier with the lack of problems he inherits with a newer model honda (except FWD, still no cure) and won't hate you forever for tricking him to buy an ugly underpowered 80s rust bucket.

But if you can, steer him to a RWD honda.

[Charlie]

But if you can, steer him to a RWD honda.

An NSX or an S2k?

I imagine since he's looking at civics/integras, and you're pointing to an e30, than an NSX or 2-3 year old S2000 is gonna be out of his range.

-Charlie

[MitchFong]

So its not designed that way, but that doesn't mean it can't be used that way. How come so many fwd's kick ass at autocross, because they aren't designed to be sports oriented? I have one because they are a fun to drive car, and cheap *shrug* If I'd really thought about it, I'd have something else.




well thats your definition, not mine. By that definition, its the tool that makes the craftsmen, not the other way around, which is bogus. I've seen some super fast 80s buicks at the drag strip by the way. Not my style by any stretch, but I can respect the work they put into it...

Here's a couple of scenarios:
-A middle class 16 year old gets a 94 civic coupe for his first cars. He likes to get his hands dirty, doesn't have a shit load of money, so he works on the civic. Some of his mods are good, others aren't, but its his car and he loves tinkering with it.
-A Bank of America executive reads about the new Elise in Road and Track, thinks its cool looking, buys one, and drives it to the office once or twice a week.

Which is the enthusiast?

I've been making these arguments for years though, its not the first time I've had to defend against ignorance or blind arrogance disguised as snobbery. Most of the time people simply don't know any better, and repeat typical forum bullshit. Other times people have a chip on their shoulder because they got rolled by a ricebox. Other people are just plain racist. Whatever it is, hating gets no one anywhere. Oh well.

I couldnt agree more. Exactly what i think but i still would rather my stock eta over a civic. I hope a 1990 325is will being more happiness to me when i get it. But for now im quite happy with a stoock, 18yr old car.

[E30 Wagen]

just let your friend get whatever the hell he wants. I think it's more important to make sure he doesn't rice out whatever car he gets.

sheesh everybody. three pages of arguments. and for what?