Electric Classic Cars

[Threehz]

EV's haven't reached their full potential yet.. Auto makers have over a century of R&D into ICE and oil reserves to still profit from before making the switch. In five years, EVs will have a stake in the market just like Hybrids now do. In ten years hybrid technology will be a standard at the very least and EVs will be common place.

This is why I think full electric cars aren't there yet.

Where are they supposed to be?

For ~$6,000 you can do an EV conversion that will get you 20-50 miles and reduce fuel costs by a third (or completely depending on where you get electricity), and greatly reduce damage to the environment.

For ~$15,000 to $20,000 you can do a really well put together conversion that will get you anywhere from 30 to 100 miles with variable levels of performance and the same advantages.

For ~$30,000+ you can create an incredible electric vehicle with a focus on utility, high-performance or both, a range of 100+ miles and the same benefits stated.

Sounds very reasonable to me.

[evandael]

$30,000+ buys you a nice E36 M3, a months vacation, some home improvements and plenty of cash left for fuel.


Sounds very reasonable to me.

[u3b3rg33k]

Where are they supposed to be?

A: For ~$6,000 you can do an EV conversion that will get you 20-50 miles and reduce fuel costs by a third (or completely depending on where you get electricity), and greatly reduce damage to the environment.

B: For ~$15,000 to $20,000 you can do a really well put together conversion that will get you anywhere from 30 to 100 miles with variable levels of performance and the same advantages.

C: For ~$30,000+ you can create an incredible electric vehicle with a focus on utility, high-performance or both, a range of 100+ miles and the same benefits stated.

Sounds very reasonable to me.

That's with me doing all the labor and probably most of the research.

A & B don't give me enough distance.
I drive anywhere from 60-150 miles / day - that's a tank (3 gallons @ 45mpg) of fuel a day on the bike. even on an electric motorcycle (better range than cars for comparison) I'd still barely make it there on the highway (substantial distance penalty at highway speeds due to wind resistance), then I'd HAVE to be able to fully charge it before heading home.
Honestly right now given $30k for an eco car, I'd buy a VW diesel.

$30,000+ buys you a nice E30 M3, tires, a track day and if you're lucky a bit of cash left for fuel.


Sounds very reasonable to me.

fixed.

[Vtec?lol]

This thread makes me want a Jetta TDI with a euro tune. or a 4dr golf.

[MattBimmer]

may be a repost but there is a guy with a 4 door EV E30 in Asheville. It was sick... the dudes brake booster was a meat sealer.

[herbivor]

To do a really nice EV worth driving, you are spending $30k not including time and labor which I'm sure would be hundreds of hours. At that amount id rather fork over more for a leaf, Honda fit EV, or BMW i3, which has been properly engineered, built, warrantied, etc. You only build your own because you want to, not because it saves money, drives better, or helps the environment.

[Threehz]

Why would you buy VW diesel? Jetta TDI starts at 22k for 30 city 42 highway, Hyundai Accent starts at 14.5k for 30 city 40 highway, and diesel is a ~7.5 increase in price to regular gasoline...

I like the leaf but for the same price I could build a conversion with a 200 mile range which seems more practical if I'd be spending that kind of money..

I'm building my own because I want to, I don't like new cars, it saves money, drives better (up for interpretation), and helps the environment.

Everyone is different. An electric car suits my needs and converting an older vehicle I've always wanted fits my interests and budget better.

[u3b3rg33k]

Why would you buy VW diesel? Jetta TDI starts at 22k for 30 city 42 highway, Hyundai Accent starts at 14.5k for 30 city 40 highway, and diesel is a ~7.5 increase in price to regular gasoline...

TDI gets 30 city 42 highway? what? oh you're reading the EPA numbers. They seriously outperform those estimates - the secretary in my office has one and averages 42mpg overall. I have a few other friends that own sportwagons that average upper 40s overall, low to mid 50s on the highway.

Diesel costing more per gallon means nothing. fuel cost per mile is what matters - if only cost per gallon were important, would semi's run diesel? Not a chance.

[Threehz]

Cost per gallon and fuel economy are the two factors which affect cost per mile though right?

But, in that case definitely sounds reasonable! Except, doesn't an old Mk1 diesel Rabbit do that well if not better? I've heard most average between 55-60 mpg on the highway in their Mk1 diesel Rabbits.

[u3b3rg33k]

Cost per gallon and fuel economy are the two factors which affect cost per mile though right?

But, in that case definitely sounds reasonable! Except, doesn't an old Mk1 diesel Rabbit do that well if not better? I've heard most average between 55-60 mpg on the highway in their Mk1 diesel Rabbits.

People seem to have trouble doing math - they just see a higher price and assume bad. like people that put 87 in their knock sensored turbo cars because it's "cheaper". Oh really?

Older diesels got better mileage thanks to fuel injection sans emissions - something none of us have ever experienced with OEM gas vehicles.

Worthy of note though is the performance of new diesels vs old - night and day.

There is a penalty for all that green coming out of your tailpipes, on both gas and diesel vehicles. It is nice being able to ride behind a school bus and not die of smoke inhalation though.

[///schwartzman]

I've been a fan of EM and EV cars since studying Nikola Tesla in high school and the GM EV1 was put to pasture in 2001... All I can say is watch the White Zombie on YouTube...

I love ICE cars but if technology can end our dependence on drilling holes in our earth and making only certain people rich, I'm in. But now they're mining Lithium in S.A. for batteries, and then theres the battery land fill debate... no escape.

Biodiesel would be viable if they required fast food joints to donate to non-profit conversion stations and fixed pricing at costs plus 40%

My choices for EV or Hydrogen cell donor car:
'83 Audi urQuattro /GT
'78 VW Rabbit
'69 Alfa Romeo GTV
'73 BMW 2002 tii
Fiat X/9
Datsun 510 / Skyline
Cobra kit car

[TobyB]

Honestly, I want one just to play with it. Since I drive 7 miles in stop and go to work, and
rarely over 10 miles from home on any given day, it seems a lot less complicated than
a gas car. Plus, the oil on the 318 NEVER warms up when I'm using it as a commutabox.

I hate to pee on the third rail, here, but there aren't any vehicle- size batteries easily available in any
chemistry but lead. No lithium nothin'. NiMH would be great- but they are unavailable
for political reasons. Everything else is more expensive than a Nissan Leaf just for the batteries,
not including the charger.
Economy of scale is NOT in favor of the person doing a diy conversion.
In fact, the best way is probably to find a rolled Leaf and use it as a donor...

But lead can be done by someone like me with a welder and a sawzall,
and it'll go 40 to 60 miles reliably for a long time on a pack.

As to what car to convert, after looking at lots, the 3- box sedans are best for
battery packaging, something sporty is good because then you can get big brakes
and heavy duty parts, and something like a 2002, E21 or E30 or VW rear- engine
is good because then you can minimally package the (small) motor and a transaxle
and leave large, square areas open for batteries. Fancy drive end suspensions like
the E36 restrict your drive possibilities, and front wheel drive uses up too much of
the front box for drive, putting too much weight in back over small, lightweight rear
hubs, brakes and structure.

I had a VW notchback that I wanted to convert, but it was too far rusted...
I had a 2002 I wanted to convert, but it was also a rustbucket.
There was a Volvo 122, but there's NO room in front for batteries- it's all A- arms up there! And the rest of the body is too round- not enough cube.

There's a parts E30 that might work out one of these decades- but I'm not holding my breath.

It's a fun project- but it's more for the fun of it at this point.

t

[Threehz]

Your oil doesn't warm up driving 7 miles in a 318?

I'm not sure how you're not finding batteries? First time I ever searched for batteries this place (http://www.batteryspace.com/) was the first one I found. NiMH are available on there in a range of ratings and sizes as well--what is politically wrong about them?

LiFePO4 aren't that expensive and are one of the best types of batteries in a number of categories. I don't know why you think the price of batteries is so outrageous. 30.7 Kwh worth of LiFePO4 batteries comes out to ~$8900 with charger included and in an average-efficiency electric conversion car that comes to ~100 mile range (same as leaf), and that is not including regenerative braking (+10% - 30% range increase).

I'm excited to see how my project will turn out after all this debate. I'm really leaning towards taking my time to find a GTI due to the drastic reduction in weight. I think with proper care and planning I'll be able to reach my goals while maintaining a tight budget.

[u3b3rg33k]

Biodiesel would be viable if they required fast food joints to donate to non-profit conversion stations and fixed pricing at costs plus 40%

LMAO wut?

I hate to pee on the third rail, here, but there aren't any vehicle- size batteries easily available in any
chemistry but lead. No lithium nothin'. NiMH would be great- but they are unavailable
for political reasons. Everything else is more expensive than a Nissan Leaf just for the batteries,
not including the charger.
Economy of scale is NOT in favor of the person doing a diy conversion.
In fact, the best way is probably to find a rolled Leaf and use it as a donor...

But lead can be done by someone like me with a welder and a sawzall,
and it'll go 40 to 60 miles reliably for a long time on a pack.

How are NiMH batteries unavailable? And NiCd is a much better tech for high C systems, has no penalty for deep discharging, wider operating temp range, much longer cycle life (500+ vs 300+).

As for lead acid batteries, they're just about as fussy as everything else out there - sulfation, large life penalty for deep discharge, poor charge rates, heavy, reduced lifespan when operated over 80F, and so on, but for some reason people seem to accept them as "good" and replacing them regularly as "OK". WTF is that?

[Q5Quint]

Hate to revive a dead thread but I saw this today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAnzPAsvHL0

The EV West e36~ Looking on their site I found a warp 9 that has a u joint on one end. Looking at the regular warp 9s it looks like they have keyway shafts on both ends....

I am now thinking I could find a old wrangler or cj7 and leave the engine in there to drive the rear wheels, and mount the electric motor on the front differential. Kind of a ghetto prius but if the 9" could drag me around town for about 5-10 miles I would never have to use gas, and if I did then there is already a gas engine in the car. I guess I would just have to gear the front pumpkin so the electric motor wouldnt overspin~ ie top out at 35 or something.

Anybody know if somebody has tried this already?
-Q