wich company lost its way? (jalopnik review)

[Mlarsen]

^ That right there is the harsh reality that is the car market.

[mulletman]

Which part of "not our fucking demo" do R3V kiddies not get?

BMW does not care about kids making 8/hr and driving 25 year old cars. You don't buy cars. It's a simple as that. BMW builds larger, softer and heavier luxo-boxes because their primary demographic (women), want them. The X1 sells huge, the X3 moves markets, the Countryman sells well, China loves the 550gt. BMW is a for-profit company, they like money, and as such, produce products that their customers want.

Enthusiasts sit behind their keyboards and bitch up a storm, but when it comes to whipping out their wallet, they shrivel back into their pants and walk away. The E36 M3 LTW? flopped. The E36/7 M coupes? Flopped. The lightweight, fun and tossable e36 318ti compact? Flopped. The E86 Z4 & M coupes? They couldn't give those things away. The Pontiac GTO, the car everyone clamored for? Flopped. The CTS-Wagon that all the internet jizzed on, rotted on the lot. The new Toyo-barus? Go listen to kiddies on the internet bitch that they're "too expensive" at 25k and don't have 400 hp.

Once again, "enthusiasts" have proven they don't buy cars. Hence, the automakers don't give a shit.

You want a lightweight, enthusiast focused BMW with a warranty? They've got you covered. They just stick a British flag on it and call it a MINI. Go pick up a JCW Coupe. They're badass cars.

That, or, you know, just buy a bike. BMW makes some awesome ones.

-Charlie

Truth. It's unfortunate that this is the case, but it's true.

And the S1000RR is awesome.

[Charlie]

Which part of "not our fucking demo" do R3V kiddies not get?

BMW does not care about kids making 8/hr and driving 25 year old cars. You don't buy cars. It's a simple as that. BMW builds larger, softer and heavier luxo-boxes because their primary demographic (women), want them. The X1 sells huge, the X3 moves markets, the Countryman sells well, China loves the 550gt. BMW is a for-profit company, they like money, and as such, produce products that their customers want.

Enthusiasts sit behind their keyboards and bitch up a storm, but when it comes to whipping out their wallet, they shrivel back into their pants and walk away. The E36 M3 LTW? flopped. The E36/7 M coupes? Flopped. The lightweight, fun and tossable e36 318ti compact? Flopped. The E86 Z4 & M coupes? They couldn't give those things away. The Pontiac GTO, the car everyone clamored for? Flopped. The CTS-Wagon that all the internet jizzed on, rotted on the lot. The new Toyo-barus? Go listen to kiddies on the internet bitch that they're "too expensive" at 25k and don't have 400 hp.

Once again, "enthusiasts" have proven they don't buy cars. Hence, the automakers don't give a shit.

You want a lightweight, enthusiast focused BMW with a warranty? They've got you covered. They just stick a British flag on it and call it a MINI. Go pick up a JCW Coupe. They're badass cars.

That, or, you know, just buy a bike. BMW makes some awesome ones.

-Charlie

[mulletman]

And Lotus is nothing compared to BMW, it is a TINY little company. Once again, maybe 5% of the population wants a bare bones Elise

Lotus is 'nothing?' Right. Being a small company means you're irrelevant? Yet another logical fallacy. I'd rather have a small number of good cars, than a million shitty ones. See GM for a good example of that. I suppose the McLaren company is 'nothing' too. And Koenigsegg. And Ducati. So if Lotus is 'nothing,' then why have they been able to do something that BMW apparently can't, in making a modern car that is light?

Care to address the other examples of modern light cars? I suppose Toyota, Subaru, and Mitsubishi are all 'nothing' too.

I would much rather prefer a car with a ton of comfort options and still have well over 300hp and doesn't rattle my back to death.

You'd rather have this, even when you're in the market for a sporting car? If someone is buying an M3 or 1M, they're in the market for a good driver's car. Or at least they used to be. Why shoot yourself in the foot with literally a 'ton' of shit?

End is, 95% of the people in the world do not want little cars, they want SAFETY and comfort all in a car that drives itself.

I agree. 95% of people can buy other cars, then. BMW M Division should be the 5%.

And once again, sales numbers do not determine how great of a driver's car something is.

I fall in the 5% that doesn't need that stuff, but damn it sure is nice rolling down the German autobahn in a new F10 doing 250kmh and still getting 5.5l/ 100km and hearing close to zero road noise.

Enjoy your supersonic sofa. I'd rather be going 60 mph around a turn with my knee on the ground, feeling like the pavement is going past my head at mach 1.

[Jon325i]

BMW has definitely lost its way over the years....there's isn't anything too inspiring or lust-worthy in the new car portfolio. Cars from earlier years have more appeal to me. In no specific order, they are....

E46 M3
M coupe (Z3 and Z4 variants)
E39 M5
E34 M5
E30s
1M coupe
2002

I personally think Audi is creating better cars than BMW now. The new A4, compared to the new 3-series, looks nicer IMHO and the S4 is pretty badass. Can't overlook any version of the R8.....BMW has nothing to compare to this. Audi, thanks to VW AG, has been leading the charge with clean diesel cars in the US. BMW has only had a few in recent years, but they plan to bring more.

Jon

[oliver.r]

exactly the point of the jalopnik review ^

[ohthejosh]

And Lotus is nothing compared to BMW, it is a TINY little company. Once again, maybe 5% of the population wants a bare bones Elise, I would much rather prefer a car with a ton of comfort options and still have well over 300hp and doesn't rattle my back to death.

End is, 95% of the people in the world do not want little cars, they want SAFETY and comfort all in a car that drives itself.


I fall in the 5% that doesn't need that stuff, but damn it sure is nice rolling down the German autobahn in a new F10 doing 250kmh and still getting 5.5l/ 100km and hearing close to zero road noise.

I think we can all agree that, we would LOVE if BMW would provide a lineup of pure performance vehicles. I know that's what the M division is for but that brand has become watered down to its core and for those who are BMW loyalists and enthusiasts it is very disheartening to see where BMW is heading.

Maybe they should just have another branch of the M division that caters to the needs of those that can truly appreciate the performance engineering greatness that BMW has. Or maybe just make that extra model such as the CSL which was amazing!

If BMW keeps creating things like a 4 series, x1, x6, 6 series grand coupe, 5 series gran turismo, etc. they would just become a plain jane auto manufacturer. No soul or excitement left in the brand name.

[mikeedler]

If sales are the measure of a car, then apparently the Honda Accord is the best car of all time. Sales determining the greatness of a product is a logical fallacy.




BMW is trying to make money, not racecars.




The 'safety regulations' and 'government mandate' thing is a damn cop-out. Plain and simple. The Lotus Elise/Exige platform was made until last year, and weighed less than 2000 lbs. Are they exempt from safety standards? How about the Miata? Right around 2000 lbs for much of it's life, the current version weighs 2500 or so. The new Mini weighs in at about 2600 lbs. Hell, the Evo IX weighed roughly 3100, and that's with 4 doors and a heavy AWD system. The Subaru 2.5RS 2-door of a few years back weighs about as much as an E30, again with a heavy AWD system. The brand-spanking-new Lotus Evora is still pretty light. The Subaru BRZ/Scion FRS are light.

Light cars are still possible. BMW simply isn't trying anymore. Low weight is not their target.

And Lotus is nothing compared to BMW, it is a TINY little company. Once again, maybe 5% of the population wants a bare bones Elise, I would much rather prefer a car with a ton of comfort options and still have well over 300hp and doesn't rattle my back to death.

End is, 95% of the people in the world do not want little cars, they want SAFETY and comfort all in a car that drives itself.


I fall in the 5% that doesn't need that stuff, but damn it sure is nice rolling down the German autobahn in a new F10 doing 250kmh and still getting 5.5l/ 100km and hearing close to zero road noise.

[ohthejosh]

To be honest I like the f10 a lot. It is extremely comfortable and feels luxurious which seems right. It looks just right as well imo, Im sure the 7 series is luxurious and comfortable but it looks like a damn airbus! Just too large for a car.

Now guys dont for get about this beauty BMW is selling -__-;

[oliver.r]

I feel like some of you guys missed the point of the review,
Bmw does make excellent vehicles but they are no longer the perfoance oriented vehicles they once were

[mulletman]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Audi has for the first time ever outsold BMW thi year........ BMW is trying to market more like them.
The BMW market has moved away from the U.S. guys. China and co. are the new place to make money.

People want technology today, not a $50,000 car they have to drive. I blame it on all you hipster i-phone fag generation!

rebadging is nothing new-- the 02 guys probably freaked when they renamed the cars the 3 series.

I have driven all of the newer cars, and none of them drive bad, just different.

If sales are the measure of a car, then apparently the Honda Accord is the best car of all time. Sales determining the greatness of a product is a logical fallacy.

this. BMW pours millions into market research and analysis. bmw is producing a lot of cool cars lately imo; the 1 series M coupe, possible tri turbo m3?, 335is anyone?

obviously these cars aren't going to become barebones like they were in the 80s because of government oversight. every piece of technology that comes from the automotive industry (seat belts, side impact air bags, traction control, etc) costs millions to implement, yet becomes government mandated after a few years. this drives up the weight and cost to manufacture new vehicles, so i only see cars becoming heavier by all automakers.

The 'safety regulations' and 'government mandate' thing is a damn cop-out. Plain and simple. The Lotus Elise/Exige platform was made until last year, and weighed less than 2000 lbs. Are they exempt from safety standards? How about the Miata? Right around 2000 lbs for much of it's life, the current version weighs 2500 or so. The new Mini weighs in at about 2600 lbs. Hell, the Evo IX weighed roughly 3100, and that's with 4 doors and a heavy AWD system. The Subaru 2.5RS 2-door of a few years back weighs about as much as an E30, again with a heavy AWD system. The brand-spanking-new Lotus Evora is still pretty light. The Subaru BRZ/Scion FRS are light.

Light cars are still possible. BMW simply isn't trying anymore. Low weight is not their target.

[Todd Black 88]

Hahaha, I am 38 years old and past the need to have a car that "turns heads"! And we are talking about driving a car, not looking at it or liking it because it's different.

Your 1300 miles had how many city traffic stop and go miles ? Hmmm.
The wagon will do everything on your trip, as well as sit comfortably in traffic, stop and go, etc.
I am not new to e30 ownership, and have owned my M3 for 8 years, and I will state here and now, the M3 was designed with a race track in mind, and that's where it excels. Evrywhere the average person drives, 99% of the time spent on the road, the M3 is no better at that job than a civic........probably worse.

Most people use there cars to commute, not do 1300 mile trips through mountain passes every week.

[BlackbirdM3]

Thank you!

Finally a coherent thought in this thread.

I own an e30 M3, a 92 Mtech II cab, and a 2012 328i xdrive touring.
The M3 is only worth driving hard, on a TRACK, anywhere else it's..........a 25 year old car in a world of minivans. The cab is useless on anything other than a sunny day.
The 2012 I can drive anytime, anywhere, quicker and in more comfort than either cars, anywhere other than a race track. If I could only have one car, it would be the 2012.

I have to disagree whole heatedly. I'll admit, I'm not a fan of cabs, but still, they are different. The M3 and cab can both be driven anywhere anytime. The M3 turns heads, people who know what it is respect it. a '12 328 is nothing special. They have built tons of them and will be worth nothing in the end. There is nothing special about it. It might as well be a cow in a field, very common (the cow will taste better when its grilled on my bbq.) Modern cars all lack rear visibility, and all look the same. No personality what so ever.

Heck, I put 1300 miles on my M3 in the past week. It had rain, snow, and clear skies, two mountain passes, a desert, and everything in between. The car never missed a beat nor was it uncomfortable. Heck, it got 29 mpg to boot. Yeah, its 25 years old, and it did EVERYTHING that any modern car does just as well.

Will

[Todd Black 88]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Audi has for the first time ever outsold BMW thi year........ BMW is trying to market more like them.
The BMW market has moved away from the U.S. guys. China and co. are the new place to make money.

People want technology today, not a $50,000 car they have to drive. I blame it on all you hipster i-phone fag generation!

rebadging is nothing new-- the 02 guys probably freaked when they renamed the cars the 3 series.

I have driven all of the newer cars, and none of them drive bad, just different.

Thank you!

Finally a coherent thought in this thread.

I own an e30 M3, a 92 Mtech II cab, and a 2012 328i xdrive touring.
The M3 is only worth driving hard, on a TRACK, anywhere else it's..........a 25 year old car in a world of minivans. The cab is useless on anything other than a sunny day.
The 2012 I can drive anytime, anywhere, quicker and in more comfort than either cars, anywhere other than a race track. If I could only have one car, it would be the 2012.

[Holland]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Audi has for the first time ever outsold BMW thi year........ BMW is trying to market more like them.
The BMW market has moved away from the U.S. guys. China and co. are the new place to make money.

People want technology today, not a $50,000 car they have to drive. I blame it on all you hipster i-phone fag generation!

rebadging is nothing new-- the 02 guys probably freaked when they renamed the cars the 3 series.

I have driven all of the newer cars, and none of them drive bad, just different.

All of us can talk until we are blue in the face, but this is the bottom line...

Besides, BMW thanks us for cleaning out all their old parts inventory, thus making them more money.