wich company lost its way? (jalopnik review)

[rich4rdee]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Audi has for the first time ever outsold BMW thi year........ BMW is trying to market more like them.
The BMW market has moved away from the U.S. guys. China and co. are the new place to make money.

People want technology today, not a $50,000 car they have to drive. I blame it on all you hipster i-phone fag generation!

rebadging is nothing new-- the 02 guys probably freaked when they renamed the cars the 3 series.

I have driven all of the newer cars, and none of them drive bad, just different.

this. BMW pours millions into market research and analysis. bmw is producing a lot of cool cars lately imo; the 1 series M coupe, possible tri turbo m3?, 335is anyone?

obviously these cars aren't going to become barebones like they were in the 80s because of government oversight. every piece of technology that comes from the automotive industry (seat belts, side impact air bags, traction control, etc) costs millions to implement, yet becomes government mandated after a few years. this drives up the weight and cost to manufacture new vehicles, so i only see cars becoming heavier by all automakers.

[ELVA164]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Unfortunately, people like us are a small percentage of the population, and an expensive one to produce for. We expect a lot more out of our cars than most people, which means a lot more R&D and a lot less flexibility for sales.

[mikeedler]

these threads are so one sided and dumb.
NO ONE wants to buy an E30 today.
BMW is selling cars like crazy, so they must be doing some thing right. an F30 can outdo an E30 in almost everything, and it is comfy too ...........

now not that I would buy one, but if a car company would listen to what you want, they would be in the same situation as GM/Chrysler more than likely.

Audi has for the first time ever outsold BMW thi year........ BMW is trying to market more like them.
The BMW market has moved away from the U.S. guys. China and co. are the new place to make money.

People want technology today, not a $50,000 car they have to drive. I blame it on all you hipster i-phone fag generation!

rebadging is nothing new-- the 02 guys probably freaked when they renamed the cars the 3 series.

I have driven all of the newer cars, and none of them drive bad, just different.

[mrbeef612]

You guys are all right... BMW is just sad... I do not like new cars they are to controlled to much BS in them. My E30 sedan weights in a 2800 pounds... Its fun handles great and gets mid 20's MPG.. If you look at newer 3 series sedans they are over 4000 pounds.. WTF.. If I wanted a huge car I would by a suburban. The only new to me car I will buy is a E36 M3 to me BMW after the E36 they just lost the fun factor its just a name now. And it makes me sad and sick.

[BlackbirdM3]

I have to be honest here. There are only 3 cars built in the last 25 years that I'd be interested in owning, A Lotus Exage, a Porsche GT3 RS, and perhaps an S2000. If I want a 4 door, E28 M5 is the only thing that interests me in the lest. Everything on the market now is built to be thrown away in 5 years so they can sell you a new car. They aren't designed well from the start so they will have to be replaced about the time the warranty runs out. The resale values are crap, and to fix things like a touch screen that controls everything in the car is going to cost an arm and a leg. If you don't replace it, you will likely loose a good portion of the electrically controlled items in the car. Epic Fail right there.

I see more and more frivolous fluff added in as "Technology" that is really a distraction to already distracted drivers, leading to more accidents. The cost to repair said cars is so high that you might as well total the thing and buy a new car. Between this and insurance companies being good for nothing, I have to say all manufacturers have lost their way in a quest to sell more cars of lower quality, but charging top dollar for the crap they sell.

I'm one of the few people who care more about performance than comfort or gizmos. Why would I be interested in a GT3 RS? Because its a bare bones, stripped down street going version of the RSR race car. Its got nothing, and is designed for true enthusiasts. The only issue is, they aren't making them anymore (I couldn't find it on the Porsche website at least.)

The bottom line is, well the bottom line. They are selling mediocre, ugly vehicles at top dollar designed to die in a relatively short time so they can sell you another POS for top dollar 5-7 years down the road.

Will

[oliver.r]

I wonder if this trend will ever be reversed, I don't think it will.
There are definitely enthusiast cars out there but not everyone can afford a gtr or Ferrari.911... Speaking of 911s, Porsche is losing their shit too

[Nick_S]

BMW's are now sold for the badge on the hood. A status symbol (they always somewhat were), but they have stopped making enthusiasts based cars. Which isn't all their fault, I really don't think the over whelming majority of people could care less about that. A car is no longer an expression of someone's personal taste or enjoyment, it's an appliance to go to and from work in comfort, luxury and safety. No one cares about the connected feeling you get from the front wheels telling you exactly what the car is doing through the steering wheel. People want a muted, sensible, safe drive. It sucks.

Honda is up there on my list too. They used to make some very, very nice cars but they seem to be the forefront of the appliance market for cars. Reliable as the sunrise which is great, people don't want to worry about their cars but man it would be great to see a car like an Integra type R come back. 8K+ rpm redline, well balanced chassis, perfect steering and brake feel. Non of that computer assisted non-sense.

I'll be hanging onto my cars for awhile because it's going to be harder and harder to find a car I truly enjoy driving after awhile.

[JinormusJ]

BMW definitely has to be higher on the list. FWD; 3- I mean, "4 Series"; X6"M. Need I list more examples of how BMW is all about "Brand Marketting for Women" now and not about precision and performance like back in the day. Audi drops their FWD for their AWD Quattros to become more competitive, so BMW retaliates by..! Embracing a FWD model?? BMW Engineers are turning into sacrilegious robots

Honda? "New" civic? "New" Accord? HAH! Beige cloth boring madness. Same thing for 6+ years gets drab after a while. CR-V? LOL "Performance"-Hybrid? Do those words even belong together? Honda sure proved they don't. Acura, AKA Fugl-ura has taken their TL with their ugly freakin grille, marketed that, then made the TL fatter, made it a hatch back, added a lift kit, a few extra chairs, slapped an MDX badge on it, and marketed that.. Really..???

Mitsubishi..? Not a recent 2012 thing, but they're hit an all time low and have stayed there for years without any sign of trying to go higher. Dropping out of Rallying, dropping the AWD Turbo Eclipse, dropping the Evo, going strictly electric; one mistake after another; the company can only endure so many hits before it starts going down hill.

[oliver.r]

thats true and i agree but the way i saw it bmw was one of the only companies that still cared about fanatics

[ELVA164]

they are after the dollar, it makes sense, it is all about profits but it leaves people like us hanging out to dry

Unfortunately, people like us are a small percentage of the population, and an expensive one to produce for. We expect a lot more out of our cars than most people, which means a lot more R&D and a lot less flexibility for sales. Although it would appear that flexibility doesn't really matter to BMW since they now produce, what, 9 models?

[oliver.r]

the big cars have always been beasts, i have no problem with the excess of the 6 and 7 series, i just wish the 5 and 3 stayed true

[MonkeyMan]

I can't stand how modern cars just keep getting bigger and bigger.
Add to this the fact that more people are buying more cars (which are bigger), and you have
a recipe for dreaded traffic congestion, which means there are fewer opportunities to enjoy horsepower and more emphasis on boring-ass MPG, and just getting from A to B.
If we keep in mind the dimensions of the original 80's BMW 3, 5, and 7 Series cars, a modern 3 series is about the size of the E28 5-series, and the "1" is pretty much a modern E30 3-series, etc..
If BMW stuck to it's roots, the current BMW lineup should go something like this:

- 3 series = current 1 series (with the 2 door coupe and the euro 4 dr hatch, 330i & 330i Turbo < yes, based again on the actual displacement and harking back to the 2002 Turbo)
- M3 = current 1 Series M (I can't stand that name) in 2 door 6spd MANUAL only

- 5 series = current 3 series sedan (with the 4 dr sedan and the wagon, 530i & 530i Turbo)
- M5 = current 4 door M3 (the near 4000lb porker with a V8)

- 6 series = current 3 series coupe (630i & 630i Turbo)
- M6 = current 2 door M3

- 7 series = current 5 series (750i & 750i Turbo < yes, the tt V8 of the current M5)

As far as their actual lineup:

- dump the hideous and bulbous 7 series
- dump the overweight, overstated, overcomplicated 6 series
- dump the useless X6 and forget it ever happened (the space of a sedan and handling of an SUV which is recipe for I don't know what)
- 6 series Grand Coupe. BMW, really guys? wtf...
- dump either the X3 or X5, but for God's sakes no auto maker needs to offer more than 1 type of SUV to clog up our roads.

And of course, since they would all be 1 size smaller (and lighter), their gas mileage ratings would also be better when compared to their current rivals.

Has BMW lost it's soul?
Definitely.

But bearing in mind that most other automakers also have (example: Porsche has an SUV), I guess it's fair to say that BMW still offers a better driver's car than it's rivals.

Just sayin'..

[oliver.r]

to me the M series cars have become the "sports car" for the rich business guy.
it is the most expensive of any series so they want the "top" 3 series or the "top 5 series.
it seriously got watered down for the masses with money

[Kershaw]

I really believe that if a company wants to put "sports" on their car's description, especially if it's a coupe, it needs to weigh at or under 3000lbs.

rx8, brz, miata, s2000, elise, cayman, corvette, etc. these are sports cars. m3? it's now a muscle car.

[oliver.r]

^^^^
exactly
makes me sad