Swap choices, S54, Euro S50, or something else?

[Asbradley21]

Would be easy to simply send your harness and DME from the S54 to any of the shops well versed in this swap, then simply plug it in to get your car running with an S54.

The only question though is will it fit in my budget to have that done?

[Asbradley21]

m60/m62? Uses Bosch Motronic 3.3 so it wires in just like an m50. Engines are usually ~$700, easy to find, don't require any major maintenance, all aluminum so weight gain is not significant, parts are fairly cheap, etc...

I'm sure the s54 would make a faster car overall, but the HP/$ may be something to think about. And the low end power is nice. The main obstacle in the m60 swap is the brake booster. You could run a Tilton/Wilwood 3 pedal booster-less setup, that would be ideal for a track car anyway.

I don't want v8. I also don't want to replace shitty timing chain guides.

[F34R]

Rode in FrankM's m60 e30, it was badass. But you KNOW that engine is up there in turns. I drove an e46 M3 for a few weeks and the e46 is much quicker...imagine that in an e30. Not bashing the m60, but the S54 is the PERFECT engine for the e30/ I would be doing an s54 if I could afford all the flashing and wiring work involved(not my strong area). For me a built m20 turbo gets more power than I will ever need and at a price I can afford bit by bit.

If you have the cash, NA S54 swap is the best hands down. They are easy to work on too. Valve gasket change on the m60 in an e30 would be a nightmare...same with the rear spark plugs?

m60/m62? Uses Bosch Motronic 3.3 so it wires in just like an m50. Engines are usually ~$700, easy to find, don't require any major maintenance, all aluminum so weight gain is not significant, parts are fairly cheap, etc...

I'm sure the s54 would make a faster car overall, but the HP/$ may be something to think about. And the low end power is nice. The main obstacle in the m60 swap is the brake booster. You could run a Tilton/Wilwood 3 pedal booster-less setup, that would be ideal for a track car anyway.

[Roysneon]

The only question though is will it fit in my budget to have that done?

Cost difference between S54 swap and Euro S50 is negligible.

[acolella76]

Rode in FrankM's m60 e30, it was badass. But you KNOW that engine is up there in turns. I drove an e46 M3 for a few weeks and the e46 is much quicker...imagine that in an e30. Not bashing the m60, but the S54 is the PERFECT engine for the e30/ I would be doing an s54 if I could afford all the flashing and wiring work involved(not my strong area). For me a built m20 turbo gets more power than I will ever need and at a price I can afford bit by bit.

If you have the cash, NA S54 swap is the best hands down. They are easy to work on too. Valve gasket change on the m60 in an e30 would be a nightmare...same with the rear spark plugs?

You are comparing an E30 with a V8 swap to an E46 M3 that came with the S54 motor from the factory. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's not really a fair comparison to make.

[F34R]

You are comparing an E30 with a V8 swap to an E46 M3 that came with the S54 motor from the factory. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's not really a fair comparison to make.

You are completely correct! The e30 is lighter ;) thus faster with the s54 than the e46.

ONLY V8 I think is worth swapping is the LSx models.

If he cannot afford an s54 swap the S52 is better in every way. Not to mention it is easy to work on in the bay. NA S52 is very quick in a daily, will give most STi/Evos a run for their money. You can get tested known examples for under 3k full swap. The rest is simple wiring and OB1 conversion with a chip to over ride EMS(I know I am missing things, please don't go into detail NFG).

S54 runs 3,500-7k, This guy does amazing work for plug in and play: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&highlight=s54

If he turns the wrenches and waits out for a deal on a s54 he can do this in his budget.

[JGood]

The m60 is slower than a s52

Ehh, nope.

Rode in FrankM's m60 e30, it was badass. But you KNOW that engine is up there in turns. I drove an e46 M3 for a few weeks and the e46 is much quicker...imagine that in an e30.

Maybe something is wrong with Franks car. I walk away from my buddies s52 e30, and he walked away from another friends e46 M3. My 1/4 mile time was right in line with what an e46 M3 would be, and I'm a terrible drag racer. An e46 M3 will not be beating an m60 e30. They make nearly the same power and the e30 is significantly lighter. And an s52 e30 will definitely not beat an m60 e30, that's almost a ridiculous thought.

None of this matters, as the OP said he doesn't want a V8, but just making sure we are all on the same page... an s52 makes less power then an m60, at any given RPM. A chipped OBD-I s52 e30 will not be faster then an m60 e30, ever.

[moatilliatta]

All motor M54 build!

[acolella76]

Ehh, nope.





Maybe something is wrong with Franks car. I walk away from my buddies s52 e30, and he walked away from another friends e46 M3. My 1/4 mile time was right in line with what an e46 M3 would be, and I'm a terrible drag racer. An e46 M3 will not be beating an m60 e30. They make nearly the same power and the e30 is significantly lighter. And an s52 e30 will definitely not beat an m60 e30, that's almost a ridiculous thought.

None of this matters, as the OP said he doesn't want a V8, but just making sure we are all on the same page... an s52 makes less power then an m60, at any given RPM. A chipped OBD-I s52 e30 will not be faster then an m60 e30, ever.

Right on Justin.

[///schwartzman]

Who knows the specs & stats of the M60/62 motor to compare with the S52 it comes down to the power to weight ratio and torque curve. I guesstimate the V8 will have the advantage until @5800 rpm --> shift I don't see it losing unless it runs out of gearing so depending on the diff.

Is this to be a track car or daily? Pound for pound the stock S54 cannot be beat as a direct swap right now... Go forced induction on a 4-banger then you'll be in the ballpark and/or surpass the S54's hp/tq. and weight.

Cost: if cost is a concern the S54, S52, S14, N20 or even M10/42 turbo you're looking at $8-$12k depending on whether you go through the motor (rebuild) which I reccommend, or use aftermarket ECU. I think you can find a 2011/12: Z4, 328, or 528 motor for @$4500, upgrade the turbo to a forced performance twinscroll or find a Porsche 997 VVTurbo, I think that motor can be reliable and venerable.

[m3/e30fanatic]

I have a e46 m3 and I can tell you the s54 is one of my favorite engines. I would dream to have that engine in my e30 one day.

[evandael]

budget at least $10K for an S54 swap:

$5K motor/6 speed trans
$1.5K TinyT subframe/oil pan mods
$1.5K DME flash from MarkD
$500ish harness from Turk (i think.. he's on r3v)
$500 brake booster/steering column solutions
$1000 clutch/maintenance/"while you're in there"


you could get it done cheaper by doing the harness work yourself, skip the modified subframe/oil pan and use the E34 oilpan/pickup combo, and bolt up the E36 ZF 5speed and S52 dual-mass fly/clutch setup (includes the benefits of using the stock 325 trans crossmember and an off-the-shelf e36 or e30 24v swap driveshaft). cheapest i'd say you could get it done is $7K, and that's definitely contingent on your mechanical aptitude and what kinds of deals you come across.

[JGood]

Who knows the specs & stats of the M60/62 motor to compare with the S52 it comes down to the power to weight ratio and torque curve. I guesstimate the V8 will have the advantage until @5800 rpm --> shift I don't see it losing unless it runs out of gearing so depending on the diff.

Specs aren't needed, I put the two cars side by side, with identical trans and diff gearing (ZF310 / 3.25 LSD). My m60 walked the s52 every time.

But, here is a dyno overlay I did a while ago. It's an s52 graph, that I overlayed my old cammed m50 and an m60 on.

[dmoney(AB)]

too bad FI isn't an option.
I'd suggest 2JZ! lol

[Asbradley21]

Finally a real breakdown of costs. Appreciate that.

This car will primarily be my track toy as I daily drive my e39. It will need to be able to withstand track weekends during the scorching AL heat. So no FI and definitely no V8's, I'm not a drag racer.

At max I could probably squeeze 10k.
With 240zs30's s54 it will already have the subframe and oilpan, so that's taken care of, the transmission will probably be the zf 5 speed. A quick glance told me that often the 5 speeds are preferred for track use, the availability is a nice plus as well as the price tag.
What is has to be done with the steering column? I was going to go with the massive brake booster delete and probably upgrade from my massive street kit to the race kit a bit later, unsure about that though.

Anything else I'm missing?