So long e30 M3s...

[fronton]

Lets be real-- a large reason why m3s get engine swapped is because the s14 blows, and the owner doesnt have $7,000 laying around to rebuild it. Or cant be bothered to spend months sourcing the parts. Its not like rebuilding an m20.

Probably more true than many "purist" owners would like to admit. I don't think the s14 blows at all but to me, the look of the car is too awesome for the 190hp and 170ft/lb version of it. Box flares and spoilers for that kind of power tend to mislead and disappoint. It took me about 500 miles with the s14 before resolving that it needed at least another 100hp to live up to the hype. Since building a US spec s14 to 300hp is incredibly difficult without access to a 1990 DTM works team, and I would sacrificing drivability and reliability, I resolved to swap in a s38.

No regrets, just grins.

[rturbo 930]

I don't think the s14 blows at all

He wasn't saying the S14 blows, like it's a bad motor, but when it physically blows up, it costs $7k to rebuild it (although I've heard higher numbers).

And I think he's right. I used to want an E30 M3 more than anything, but now I doubt I'll ever own one. Engine rebuilds cost too much, and parts can be hard to find and expensive. I'd rather have the much cheaper non-M models, with lots of parts readily available when shit breaks.

[reelizmpro]

The only thing ridiculously expensive on the s14 are the timing chain rails. Cost me $4800 to do a full rebuild with original BMW bearings and headgasket... including JE coated pistons$800, ported head $500, evo oil pump$350 which are extras. Sure it can cost more if you dont know s14's and pay someone to rebuild it for you.

Bottom line is there are people willing to pay big bucks for s14's and s50 swaps are getting cheaper everyday. The s50 is reliable as long as the.headgasket doesnt go or you moneyshift it and if you do, you can easily find another one.

[einhander]

Probably more true than many "purist" owners would like to admit. I don't think the s14 blows at all but to me, the look of the car is too awesome for the 190hp and 170ft/lb version of it. Box flares and spoilers for that kind of power tend to mislead and disappoint. It took me about 500 miles with the s14 before resolving that it needed at least another 100hp to live up to the hype. Since building a US spec s14 to 300hp is incredibly difficult without access to a 1990 DTM works team, and I would sacrificing drivability and reliability, I resolved to swap in a s38.

No regrets, just grins.

*scratching head*

So all those people who rave about the controlability, tactile feel, and brilliant dynamics are wrong? I've never heard anyone drive a well sorted M3 say it needs more power.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the engine swap, I just never felt like the car needed more power. M cars have never been about speed, they've been about balance.

[jhaurimn]

He wasn't saying the S14 blows, like it's a bad motor, but when it physically blows up, it costs $7k to rebuild it (although I've heard higher numbers).

Lol, yes thank you. Reading back i see how that could of been taken the wrong way. I definitely respect and appreciate the s14, but when you have to rebuild one, its not easy on the wallet.

[fronton]

*scratching head*

So all those people who rave about the controlability, tactile feel, and brilliant dynamics are wrong? I've never heard anyone drive a well sorted M3 say it needs more power.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the engine swap, I just never felt like the car needed more power. M cars have never been about speed, they've been about balance.

You are saying that e30 M3 owners don't want more power? Why do you think their are so many swaps in the first place? Even the 'holy grail' for purists is to bore the s14 to 2.5l and run alpha N with a cf intake for maybe 10% more power.

You can have more power in a M3 without giving up controllability, tactile feel, brilliant dynamics and balance. Just because you have 50% more power doesn't mean you have to be sliding all over the place out of control. And if you are smart about how you do it, you can maintain the same weight and distribution (or even better) than it came from the factory.

I also disagree that M cars have never been about speed. Not about outrageous power output, but speed and maintaining speed is exactly what they are about.

I am not against anyone keeping their car completely stock, I appreciate them and respect their restraint. I just got bummed with mine because it wasn't a mind-blowingly quicker or significantly more fun car than my 318is, and that was a let down.

[enigmaticdream]

When I bought my car I was going to make OEM+ until I found evidence of an accident in the rear. Now I'm modding it the way I want. To me the car is not perfect although the title says it is. So, I'm making the weekend/track/autox car I want. I refuse to strip the interior or do a cage, but that doesn't meant I haven't spent a considerable amount of time upgrading components (suspension, exhaust, shifter, seats, and working on a BBK).

There is a dude who lives around here with a bone stock e30 m3. He is the original owner. It is beautiful. If I had that car I'd probably not mod it, but my car isn't perfect. So, I don't care about keeping it stock. It is presentable enough and functions absolutely stellar.

[reelizmpro]

Yeah, different strokes for different folks. As long as we are happy...

[tom d]

No point in really caring what someone does to an E30 M3 when they own it.

there's a lot of this being said and it's bullshit.

the E30M3 will go down in history as an important and significant car. knowing this, those of us that own them have to realize that in reality we don't own them at all, that we are merely the custodians of a piece of automotive history.

[LowR3V'in]

Would you be pissed if somebody used an m20?

[tom d]

Would you be pissed if somebody used an m20?

I wouldn't put a M20 in anything, well maybe in a boat, with a long chain attached.

[Roysneon]

lol

mad mad mad

[Cabriolet]

I have an M3, it's cool

same. it looks really cool. but 6 hours in it on the freeway makes me hate it.


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i dont like that i cant modify it w/o being judged.
i hate 4cyl cars.
im scared to push it bc i cant afford to fix it.

[Hansel]

i dont like that i cant modify it w/o being judged.

I bought one that had already been S52'd AND repainted a non factory color. Double anger!

You'll be judged even if you didn't do it!

[Cloudbase]

I apologize in advance for the novel, but I'm laid up recovering from wisdom teeth surgery. I've seen / ridden in Hansel's car and the mods in no way take away from it's E30 M3 pedigree.

I don't have an E30 M3 (yet), but I've been going through a similar debate with my M Coupe for years, i.e. how much track prep should I do, how wrong is it to hack up the car.

Arguably the original M Coupe, while not as iconic, is becoming as collectable as an E30 M3. Driving the M Coupe on public roads is just an exercise in frustration. As I've improved my driving and racing talent it's either too unsafe, too illegal, or too socially irresponsible to push the car anywhere near my/its limits. On the track the rareness of my M Coupe always held me back - it's #498 of 690 S54 E36/8's. I race Chump Car and karts, but still like tracking BMW's so I bought a track prepped M Roadster. The roadster had all of the street shortcomings removed and was way more shuntable, but it wasn't a rigid as the M Coupe and the S52 didn't pull the like the S54. I made up for it with suspension tweaks and aero - turning the car into more of a momentum car. This probably did more to improve my driving than anything else, but in the end I couldn't afford both cars so I sold the M Roadster.

I decided to make the M Coupe as track-prepped as possible without making permanent changes that can't be put exactly back to stock. Seats, bolt in harness bar, exhaust, steering wheel, shifter, bushings, suspension, square street and track wheels, brake cooling ducts, and preventative engine work. I've got a NASA TT license, which will be a perfect level of "exposure" for the M Coupe.

Motorsport cars are born from a racing pedigree, I think they should certainly be driven on the track. Eventually, that means the owners will want to prep them to varying degrees with cages, seats, suspension, fire suppression, etc to make it safe and effective. The stock seats, belts, and steering wheel in the M Coupe were a huge impediment.

My M20 powered E30 is my favorite car to drive on the street because it is underpowered. I have to use my skill and strategy to negotiate bad drivers in overpowered modern cars. The better balance and higher revving nature of the S14 would likely feel the same for me on the track, especially on shorter / tighter tracks where I could use momentum driving. I plan on getting an E30 M3 in the next few years, even if the prices sky rocket. I'm pretty open minded on how track prepped or motor-swapped it is.