So long e30 M3s...

[DER E30]

Didn't the M3 test mule from 1983/84 have an M20 in it?

How could it??!?!?!? That would be sacrilege! A non motorsport motor in a real M car!?? By the BMW engineers themselves!?!??

Ooohhh the drama

In all seriousness, the engineers that developed the aero package (as the S14 was developed) probably used a motor they had laying around to make the mule move...

[Eric]

Didn't the M3 test mule from 1983/84 have an M20 in it?

[reelizmpro]

My man, you're wrong. Rules were based on displacement and not cylinder number, both in Group A and in DTM.

BMW put a four cylinder in there because it revved higher, quicker. The crankshaft in 6-cylinder engines also suffers from much more vibration than a 4-cylinder. From an engineering standpoint alone, the S14 made sense. If they considered a 6, they disregarded its use based on technical merit.

Anyway, regarding lineage, the S14 is a bit M10 (block) and a bit M88 (head). The M88, based on an M30 block, itself based on the M10, was massaged in various ways and eventually became the S38. Early M cars of the era were not powered by S38s, but actually used M88/3s.

I'm out dis fread.

True. Keep in mind they also had 2 liter baby sixes (m20's) in the same displacements as the s14 but they created the s14 anyway from M10 and M88.

Here is a really good 4 part article that covers everything...

http://takemebeyondthehorizon.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/the-history-of-m-part-1-1972-to-86/

They credit the m3's success to reliability and handling. The car was beating turbos and Holden V8's...

[M42Power]

Don't know, but the E90 wasn't designed from the ground-up intending to be a racecar like the E30 was. And if you wanted to swap, I think welding on the flares to a non-M car usually end sup being a cheaper way to ruin an E30.

This one has smoked waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much guise

[einhander]

The ONLY reason the S14 was ever made, was because the rules prevented them from putting in a 6.

My man, you're wrong. Rules were based on displacement and not cylinder number, both in Group A and in DTM.

BMW put a four cylinder in there because it revved higher, quicker. The crankshaft in 6-cylinder engines also suffers from much more vibration than a 4-cylinder. From an engineering standpoint alone, the S14 made sense. If they considered a 6, they disregarded its use based on technical merit.

Anyway, regarding lineage, the S14 is a bit M10 (block) and a bit M88 (head). The M88, based on an M30 block, itself based on the M10, was massaged in various ways and eventually became the S38. Early M cars of the era were not powered by S38s, but actually used M88/3s.

I'm out dis fread.

[DzusFast]

Thats where I'm gonna stop you, but thats completely and utterly false. The E30 was designed for a 4 cylinder, with room for a 6. If it was designed for a 6, they'd be near 50/50 witha 6, and they aren't. Like the E36, they're nose heavy.

The S14 was NOT 'derived' from the S38. They share design features, but thats about it. The S14 was 'derived' from the M10. From the M12 in the '70's in F1 making 1500 hp in peak turbo race trim. The S38 was 'derived' from the M30, which was originally designed during the same period as the M10 originally was, so the 2 platforms share many design features.

And I hate that you put a run of the mill bored/stroked M52 into your E30 M3. SACRILEDGE!!!

QUOTE "BMW MUNICH: 1986-BMW gives birth to the M3, a car that will become an icon and an etalon in the sportcars market. The first version produced 195bhp and later models were upgraded up to 238bhp. Soon, the E30 M3 scored thousands of victories granting the title of one of the most successful touring cars in history.

786 cabriolets were also produced, all by hand in BMWs Garching plant." <--- mY E30 PROJECT (With.....uh hummm...welded on flares....keep in mind I pulled my e30 conv. from a junkyard crusher!!! )

Tough to say what was going through the minds of the OG engineers' back then (when I was sneaking Mom's ride out for late nite spins...) 4 or 6 cyl. Very good question, hard to state factualy.<--Did I spell right? (Azlheimers kicking in maybe)

STILL: To the collectors appreciating the history and value of original trim
i.e.

Power to ya! I still like the tight feel/smell of a low mileage M3

As for the bored/stroked M52, could have been a salvage rebuild... go for it!
Try valuing a Porsche 930 crank stock journal size to one that's been machined, you'll understand why it MAY be considered 'sacrilege' in someone's mind.

P.S.- I hate my e30 Cali aluminum bumpers...may I have permission to remove them? :)

:popcorn: :drink:

[LSM3]

Omg this shit is funny. Drove my car today. Had a blast..haha

[norMcal]

He'd be capitalizing on the latest popular swap...s54. In 10 years when everybody can do it, it wont be such a big deal. Autocrafts red m3 has a lot of nice mods as well. You guys need to think more long term.

Well, I doubt it will ever get easy with the S54.

I guess I will have to just swap a S65 then, and I'll be fine ;D

[norMcal]

Well, if one guy who owns one car is making claims on the internet then it ABSOLUTELY has to the case.

SCIENCE. INTERNET. BUSINESS. SERIOUS.

The guy is well known and respected in the community. Look up Red Rocket. He owns 4 e30 M3's in all, 2 of which are S14.

Another S54 just sold for $40k as well.

[reelizmpro]

Naturally originals are always going to be worth more. But this argument has been made before, many times, yet the guy from Autocraft has stated just recently on S14.net that he repeatedly turned down $50k offers for his S54 swap and that he doubts it would fetch that much if it were stock.

But generally I'm agreeing with your assessment. Then again, if it's just the value one is concerned about, you will need to watch the miles you put on the car, and were is the fun in that!

He'd be capitalizing on the latest popular swap...s54. In 10 years when everybody can do it, it wont be such a big deal. We see this now with m50 and s50 swaps. Autocrafts red m3 has a lot of nice mods as well. Clean M3's, fetch big money period, but it won't hold it's value with true M3 enthusiasts. You guys need to think more long term.

[E30 Wagen]

Whoa. You need to relax, homey.

Totally relaxed here. Just airing out my thoughts, felt good.

[einhander]

Naturally originals are always going to be worth more. But this argument has been made before, many times, yet the guy from Autocraft has stated just recently on S14.net that he repeatedly turned down $50k offers for his S54 swap and that he doubts it would fetch that much if it were stock.

Well, if one guy who owns one car is making claims on the internet then it ABSOLUTELY has to the case.

SCIENCE. INTERNET. BUSINESS. SERIOUS.

[norMcal]

Swapped M3's are still holding ground but there's going to be a time when they will be considered rollers + engine. Author's of M3 buyer's guides are already starting to write about staying away from swapped cars and diminished value.

Naturally originals are always going to be worth more. But this argument has been made before, many times, yet the guy from Autocraft has stated just recently on S14.net that he repeatedly turned down $50k offers for his S54 swap and that he doubts it would fetch that much if it were stock.

But generally I'm agreeing with your assessment. Then again, if it's just the value one is concerned about, you will need to watch the miles you put on the car, and were is the fun in that!

[jhaurimn]

[FirstM3]

Love my E30 M3

Heres a picture of mine in at Shanonville race track one of some i go too.
My love affair with this car began when I was 13 years old. When i saw it for the first time at 13 one of my neighbors owned one. I would always stare and admire it. i new there was something special about this car and that i would own one when i grew up.I come from a mechanic family so growing up all i was into were race cars. I bought my E30 M3 when i was 20 years old. Ive now had it for 5 years and love it to pieces. It has the original S14 with some tasteful mods.
I could never see myself parting with it.