So long e30 M3s...

[reelizmpro]

I have been dd'ing my s14b23 touring, even through the snow. Just got to let it warm up a bit and it does fine. The thought of an engine rebuild does scare me, and so does the impending doom of getting hit. I've already had someone tap my rear bumper causing it to crack. But if I'm going to put money into it, then you can bet that i'm going to drive it till I get sick of it.

I've never understood car collectors. In my opinion, if they made more than ten, then it should be driven. If you want to collect, collect hot-wheels or something else. Otherwise, you're just a grown up nerd who likes to get together with other nerds and trade cars or something.

People are scared of what they don't know of. S14 is no more expensive than any other DOHC I4 with the exception of the timing chain rails/guides. It's not a magical engine, just an old BMW motorsport engine. I voluntarily rebuilt mine when it didn't even need it because I figured it'd be cheaper to do it now than later. Months later, evo oil pumps were NLA and the price of NOS pumps soared. Same thing with 370mm M tech 2 steering wheels, Startecs, MHW, M tech badges, Hella smiley's, S14 M3's...etc. You getting the picture? Don't we all wish we had a time machine? I would have held on to all those parts I had, had I known... well what if you do know?

If you have a line on something that may appreciate in value and you can get in at the right time, it's a win-win for the enthusiast collector. He gets to drive the car, trailer it to shows, loan it to museums or whatever he sees fit and it's making money??? it's a no brainer. Protecting that investment is also a no brainer but apparently not to everyone. Swapped M3's are still holding ground but there's going to be a time when they will be considered rollers + engine. Author's of M3 buyer's guides are already starting to write about staying away from swapped cars and diminished value.

[einhander]

The S38 is a big, heavy engine. It's very, very expensive. It does not fit well in e30 engine bays. You're fucking delusional if you think that, if you're ever able to afford an M3 (which you won't), you're just going to swap in a built S38.

You'd get as much if not more enjoyment from keeping the existing S14 (if some dipshit didn't already swap it with a fucking S52) and going the 2.5L route. Balance is maintained, and you get a screaming, high-output 4 banger.

And to all you dreamers who go on about stripping it and turning it into a race car "because that's what it was built for," is your plan to actually race competitively? How? Are you going to quit your job, get sponsors and just live the life as pro M3 driver? Get real. Does a casual track day every month or so require a complete strip down and cage? You're a fucking idiot if you do.

Whoa. You need to relax, homey.

[norMcal]

it was a comment on this whole thread. at one time I actually cared about this argument.

over it now.

No problem. It was a timing thing, the way it posted after my post. Sorry!

[2761377]

Don't judge if you don't know all the facts.

I got the BMW bug when I rod in my dads first 2002 back in the early 70s'. He traded his cars in every two years for a new one and I pretty much followed the same pattern from the day I was able to afford to do so. We owned countless 3 series including M3's over the last 40 years. But your right, now that I wanted a reliable track car for some fun on the side, and bought a swap car, I am less of a purist than they guy who just bought his first overpriced e30 M3 and stuck it in to his collection, so he can show it to his schmuck friends, bragging how much the value just has gone up.

it was a comment on this whole thread. at one time I actually cared about this argument.

over it now.

[bataangpinoy]

I have been dd'ing my s14b23 touring, even through the snow. Just got to let it warm up a bit and it does fine. The thought of an engine rebuild does scare me, and so does the impending doom of getting hit. I've already had someone tap my rear bumper causing it to crack. But if I'm going to put money into it, then you can bet that i'm going to drive it till I get sick of it.

I've never understood car collectors. In my opinion, if they made more than ten, then it should be driven. If you want to collect, collect hot-wheels or something else. Otherwise, you're just a grown up nerd who likes to get together with other nerds and trade cars or something.

[norMcal]

yeah, bound to happen. inevitable result- purists v pet projects

Don't judge if you don't know all the facts.

I got the BMW bug when I rod in my dads first 2002 back in the early 70s'. He traded his cars in every two years for a new one and I pretty much followed the same pattern from the day I was able to afford to do so. We owned countless 3 series including M3's over the last 40 years. But your right, now that I wanted a reliable track car for some fun on the side, and bought a swap car, I am less of a purist than they guy who just bought his first overpriced e30 M3 and stuck it in to his collection, so he can show it to his schmuck friends, bragging how much the value just has gone up.

[norMcal]

Don't know, but the E90 wasn't designed from the ground-up intending to be a racecar like the E30 was. And if you wanted to swap, I think welding on the flares to a non-M car usually end sup being a cheaper way to ruin an E30.

Wow, really the e30 was designed to be a race car from the ground up. Just like it was designed to only have a 4 banger. Thanks for the history lesson. I almost want to bet you weren't even born back then, which would explain a lot.

[2761377]

a lot of butthurt people in hurr

yeah, bound to happen. inevitable result- purists v pet projects

[kendogg]

I didn't, I bought it that way, but like I said, I was looking for a swap car, because for my purposes it makes complete sense.

Did, or did BMW not sell the e30 with a 6 cylinder? I'm sorry but the answer is they did and I think they designed it that way. Saying that they designed it for a four with room for a six is like something a politician would say. Was the new 3 series designed as a 328, with room to make it a 335?

Don't know, but the E90 wasn't designed from the ground-up intending to be a racecar like the E30 was. And if you wanted to swap, I think welding on the flares to a non-M car usually end sup being a cheaper way to ruin an E30.

[norMcal]

Thats where I'm gonna stop you, but thats completely and utterly false. The E30 was designed for a 4 cylinder, with room for a 6. If it was designed for a 6, they'd be near 50/50 witha 6, and they aren't. Like the E36, they're nose heavy.

And I hate that you put a run of the mill bored/stroked M52 into your E30 M3. SACRILEDGE!!!

I didn't, I bought it that way, but like I said, I was looking for a swap car, because for my purposes it makes complete sense.

Did, or did BMW not sell the e30 with a 6 cylinder? I'm sorry but the answer is they did and I think they designed it that way. Saying that they designed it for a four with room for a six is something a politician would say. Was the new 3 series designed as a 328, with room to make it a 335?

[kendogg]

Last but not least. The e30 was build to have 6 cylinders under the hood. BMW is known for their inline 6 cylinders. A lot more so than for a couple of 4 bangers they succeeded with. AND the S14 was derived from the M1 engine, which guess what? was a inline 6. The ONLY reason the S14 was ever made, was because the rules prevented them from putting in a 6.

Again, I'm not against having a S14, if you have the money and patience to keep rebuilding it and maintaining it more power to you (no pun) but for lots of guys it makes more sense to have a S50/52 and if the S54 was an easier swap it would be a slam dunk!

Thats where I'm gonna stop you, but thats completely and utterly false. The E30 was designed for a 4 cylinder, with room for a 6. If it was designed for a 6, they'd be near 50/50 witha 6, and they aren't. Like the E36, they're nose heavy.

The S14 was NOT 'derived' from the S38. They share design features, but thats about it. The S14 was 'derived' from the M10. From the M12 in the '70's in F1 making 1500 hp in peak turbo race trim. The S38 was 'derived' from the M30, which was originally designed during the same period as the M10 originally was, so the 2 platforms share many design features.

And I hate that you put a run of the mill bored/stroked M52 into your E30 M3. SACRILEDGE!!!

[norMcal]

The S38 is a big, heavy engine. It's very, very expensive. It does not fit well in e30 engine bays. You're fucking delusional if you think that, if you're ever able to afford an M3 (which you won't), you're just going to swap in a built S38.

You'd get as much if not more enjoyment from keeping the existing S14 (if some dipshit didn't already swap it with a fucking S52) and going the 2.5L route. Balance is maintained, and you get a screaming, high-output 4 banger.

And to all you dreamers who go on about stripping it and turning it into a race car "because that's what it was built for," is your plan to actually race competitively? How? Are you going to quit your job, get sponsors and just live the life as pro M3 driver? Get real. Does a casual track day every month or so require a complete strip down and cage? You're a fucking idiot if you do.

I have a E30 M3 with an S52, because I wanted it that way. To each his own. It's a never ending argument wiht the dye hard S14 guys. I said it many times before. I love the S14 for what it is, but it isn't reliable and it is very costly to maintain. Putting in a S52 gives you more power (unless you have really deep pockets to tune the shit out of the S14), much better reliablitly and costs about half. So it isn't a real head scratch-er why so many have gone that route. Yes, the S38 would not be my first choice due to it's weight, complexity and fit.

As far as balance goes (the never ending argument for the S14) there are plenty of ways to gain it back. If I'm not mistaken the S52 adds about 80 lbs. With the AC delete (-40 lbs), ABS delete (-12lbs), Carbon hood (-35 lbs) and some other strategic lightening and no oil cooler I think balance is just fine. FWIW, last time at the track I let my friend, who is a very experience driver, take my car out for a session. He loved it and raved about the balance. Guess what car he drive? A Boxster! Aren't those the wholy grail of balanced cars?

Last but not least. The e30 was build to have 6 cylinders under the hood. BMW is known for their inline 6 cylinders. A lot more so than for a couple of 4 bangers they succeeded with. AND the S14 was derived from the M1 engine, which guess what? was a inline 6. The ONLY reason the S14 was ever made, was because the rules prevented them from putting in a 6.

Again, I'm not against having a S14, if you have the money and patience to keep rebuilding it and maintaining it more power to you (no pun) but for lots of guys it makes more sense to have a S50/52 and if the S54 was an easier swap it would be a slam dunk!

[Roysneon]

I know. This is real life after all. I guess we aren't going to be friends. I'm okay with that.

But you're so cute when you're fired up. Skype me?

[E30 Wagen]

And nobody gives a fuck what makes you happy, I know I'm tired of hearing you whine, I can't be the only one.

I know. This is real life after all. I guess we aren't going to be friends. I'm okay with that.

[DER E30]

:popcorn::drink:

I know right?
:popcorn::giggle::blowup::ohsnap: