So long e30 M3s...

[LSM3]

Omg this shit is funny. Drove my car today. Had a blast..haha

[DzusFast]

Thats where I'm gonna stop you, but thats completely and utterly false. The E30 was designed for a 4 cylinder, with room for a 6. If it was designed for a 6, they'd be near 50/50 witha 6, and they aren't. Like the E36, they're nose heavy.

The S14 was NOT 'derived' from the S38. They share design features, but thats about it. The S14 was 'derived' from the M10. From the M12 in the '70's in F1 making 1500 hp in peak turbo race trim. The S38 was 'derived' from the M30, which was originally designed during the same period as the M10 originally was, so the 2 platforms share many design features.

And I hate that you put a run of the mill bored/stroked M52 into your E30 M3. SACRILEDGE!!!

QUOTE "BMW MUNICH: 1986-BMW gives birth to the M3, a car that will become an icon and an etalon in the sportcars market. The first version produced 195bhp and later models were upgraded up to 238bhp. Soon, the E30 M3 scored thousands of victories granting the title of one of the most successful touring cars in history.

786 cabriolets were also produced, all by hand in BMWs Garching plant." <--- mY E30 PROJECT (With.....uh hummm...welded on flares....keep in mind I pulled my e30 conv. from a junkyard crusher!!! )

Tough to say what was going through the minds of the OG engineers' back then (when I was sneaking Mom's ride out for late nite spins...) 4 or 6 cyl. Very good question, hard to state factualy.<--Did I spell right? (Azlheimers kicking in maybe)

STILL: To the collectors appreciating the history and value of original trim
i.e.

Power to ya! I still like the tight feel/smell of a low mileage M3

As for the bored/stroked M52, could have been a salvage rebuild... go for it!
Try valuing a Porsche 930 crank stock journal size to one that's been machined, you'll understand why it MAY be considered 'sacrilege' in someone's mind.

P.S.- I hate my e30 Cali aluminum bumpers...may I have permission to remove them? :)

:popcorn: :drink:

[einhander]

The ONLY reason the S14 was ever made, was because the rules prevented them from putting in a 6.

My man, you're wrong. Rules were based on displacement and not cylinder number, both in Group A and in DTM.

BMW put a four cylinder in there because it revved higher, quicker. The crankshaft in 6-cylinder engines also suffers from much more vibration than a 4-cylinder. From an engineering standpoint alone, the S14 made sense. If they considered a 6, they disregarded its use based on technical merit.

Anyway, regarding lineage, the S14 is a bit M10 (block) and a bit M88 (head). The M88, based on an M30 block, itself based on the M10, was massaged in various ways and eventually became the S38. Early M cars of the era were not powered by S38s, but actually used M88/3s.

I'm out dis fread.

[M42Power]

Don't know, but the E90 wasn't designed from the ground-up intending to be a racecar like the E30 was. And if you wanted to swap, I think welding on the flares to a non-M car usually end sup being a cheaper way to ruin an E30.

This one has smoked waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much guise

[reelizmpro]

My man, you're wrong. Rules were based on displacement and not cylinder number, both in Group A and in DTM.

BMW put a four cylinder in there because it revved higher, quicker. The crankshaft in 6-cylinder engines also suffers from much more vibration than a 4-cylinder. From an engineering standpoint alone, the S14 made sense. If they considered a 6, they disregarded its use based on technical merit.

Anyway, regarding lineage, the S14 is a bit M10 (block) and a bit M88 (head). The M88, based on an M30 block, itself based on the M10, was massaged in various ways and eventually became the S38. Early M cars of the era were not powered by S38s, but actually used M88/3s.

I'm out dis fread.

True. Keep in mind they also had 2 liter baby sixes (m20's) in the same displacements as the s14 but they created the s14 anyway from M10 and M88.

Here is a really good 4 part article that covers everything...

http://takemebeyondthehorizon.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/the-history-of-m-part-1-1972-to-86/

They credit the m3's success to reliability and handling. The car was beating turbos and Holden V8's...

[Eric]

Didn't the M3 test mule from 1983/84 have an M20 in it?

[DER E30]

Didn't the M3 test mule from 1983/84 have an M20 in it?

How could it??!?!?!? That would be sacrilege! A non motorsport motor in a real M car!?? By the BMW engineers themselves!?!??

Ooohhh the drama

In all seriousness, the engineers that developed the aero package (as the S14 was developed) probably used a motor they had laying around to make the mule move...

[flying_violin]

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=29105

Looks like this guy is asking pretty good money for a "ruined" E30 M3...

[norMcal]

My man, you're wrong. Rules were based on displacement and not cylinder number, both in Group A and in DTM.

BMW put a four cylinder in there because it revved higher, quicker. The crankshaft in 6-cylinder engines also suffers from much more vibration than a 4-cylinder. From an engineering standpoint alone, the S14 made sense. If they considered a 6, they disregarded its use based on technical merit.

Anyway, regarding lineage, the S14 is a bit M10 (block) and a bit M88 (head). The M88, based on an M30 block, itself based on the M10, was massaged in various ways and eventually became the S38. Early M cars of the era were not powered by S38s, but actually used M88/3s.

I'm out dis fread.

Yes, and it did not make sense to put a 2.0l six in there. If displacement rules would have been higher 2.5-3.0, then it would have been the 6. Like I said, the reason they chose a 4 banger was because of the limitations in the rule book, not because a 4 is superior.

Regarding lineage. Looks like you looked that up on Wikipedia. Like I said, derived from the M1 engine.

[DzusFast]

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=29105Looks like this guy is asking pretty good money for a "ruined" E30 M3...

If you're gonna 'ruin' one, ruin it right!
Damn iif he doesn't have some money in that car, engine alone has $35k in it.

[DER E30]

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=29105

Looks like this guy is asking pretty good money for a "ruined" E30 M3...

He kept the s14, so not ruined

[reelizmpro]

Yes, and it did not make sense to put a 2.0l six in there. If displacement rules would have been higher 2.5-3.0, then it would have been the 6. Like I said, the reason they chose a 4 banger was because of the limitations in the rule book, not because a 4 is superior.

Regarding lineage. Looks like you looked that up on Wikipedia. Like I said, derived from the M1 engine.

Really? and how would you know what BMW Motorsport would have done? The reason they went with 4 over 6 cylinders has been documented already. It's not even a question...10K RPM's, less weight, etc. S14 was bored and stroked to 2.5L's as well. They chose to create a new 4 cylinder, instead of running a 6! These are facts...not speculation.

[DER E30]

4 that rips, 6 that rips, what's the problem?

[norMcal]

Really? and how would you know what BMW Motorsport would have done?

Yes you are right!!!!!! I don't know what they would have done, neither do you! All I know is that they don't build 3.0l inline 4's, but hey, maybe they would have!

The reason they went with 4 over 6 cylinders has been documented already. It's not even a question...10K RPM's, less weight, etc. S14 was bored and stroked to 2.5L's as well. They chose to create a new 4 cylinder, instead of running a 6! These are facts...not speculation.

Yes, that is true a 4 can rev higher and that is only other way to gain more power, if you can't boost or increase the displacement.

Paul Rosche recalls: “We started work immediately. One advantage was that the big six-cylinder engine originally had the same cylinder gap as the four-cylinder engine. We therefore cut two combustion chambers off the four-cylinder head of the M88 and bolted a panel over the hole on the rear side.” This meant that the new four-cylinder engine had a second forebear. The six-cylinder engine that had initially created a sensation in the M1 and had meanwhile transformed the M635CSi into one of the fastest coupés in the world.

From the same article:
“…Four cylinders meant less weight and high torque, an ideal platform for a sports engine in the projected displacement class!

[Cabriolet]

There is more factual information on the Onion than this thread.

NorMcal is this your car?