German reliability: the greatest myth

[noid]

meh. It definitely depends on the model, and sometimes luck. I haven't had to do anything to my E90. I did have a light bulb burn out, and I ran over a bungee chord that destroyed a rear tire.. but otherwise all I've done are filters and oil changes.

The E30 has had problems but they were mostly caused by me, plus I've had it for more than a decade. I mean, really, I've beat the ever living hell out of this car the entire time I've had it. The only time it ever truly left my stranded (as in, I had to call somebody to come get me) was when I foolishly tried to flash a new beta firmware to my Megasquirt in the parking lot at work during lunch. It bricked the computer. Oops..

besides, his examples were Audi and VW. I don't recall if it's still true, but Porsche was consistently at the top for reliability for a while. We all know BMW isn't a Toyota, but that's exactly why we drive them, because they aren't Toyotas.

My current 2007 E90:

Whole top end changed (under warranty)
Steering column changed
Two door actuators
rear window seal
Burns oil (most e90's do)
o2 Sensor

Not reliable

The absolute worst POS I have ever owned was a E53 X5, that thing was a nightmare, and I probably had the best kept example in a 1000 mile radius.

The E30 is fairly reliable, when parts break I acknowledge that they have served their purpose for 25+ years and I can only hope the replacement part lasts that long again.

Old diesel mercs though, those things were bullet proof.

[nando]

it was - there were some bearing issues on one of the motors but the cars were for the most part rock solid.

[dude8383]

So they continue to show their engineering dominance by creating all sorts of crazy gadgets and sticking them in the cars; stuff that no one wants, such as cooled gloveboxes, and rear armrest refrigerators, and those little tray tables that fold down, presumably to allow people riding in the back of an Audi A8 to do some cocaine.

I enjoyed the tray table bit...

I think that if these cars were maintained properly they wouldn't be as unreliable as people think they are... most of the unreliability comes from people thinking cars need nothing for 100,000 miles

[Stanley Rockafella]

I don't recall if it's still true, but Porsche was consistently at the top for reliability for a while.

I don't know if that was ever true

[nando]

meh. It definitely depends on the model, and sometimes luck. I haven't had to do anything to my E90. I did have a light bulb burn out, and I ran over a bungee chord that destroyed a rear tire.. but otherwise all I've done are filters and oil changes.

The E30 has had problems but they were mostly caused by me, plus I've had it for more than a decade. I mean, really, I've beat the ever living hell out of this car the entire time I've had it. The only time it ever truly left my stranded (as in, I had to call somebody to come get me) was when I foolishly tried to flash a new beta firmware to my Megasquirt in the parking lot at work during lunch. It bricked the computer. Oops..

besides, his examples were Audi and VW. I don't recall if it's still true, but Porsche was consistently at the top for reliability for a while. We all know BMW isn't a Toyota, but that's exactly why we drive them, because they aren't Toyotas.

[GDA]

An easy comparison of durability is to compare a 88 E28 535is versus a 2002 E39 540. The addition of numerous electrical parts, sensors and addition of plastic or composite components to save weight has severely reduced the ability of the latter car to easily endure 300k on the original drivetrain and chassis.

Taken a step further, just the level of additional parts adds to the odds of incremental items that can (and will) fail over time due to use or misuse over a general service period of 10 years or 100k miles. Its my impression that most all auto consumers have zero appreciation for this added level of complexity and thus creates even more negative comments toward reduced reliability. It is in this area the newer cars have a much more difficult threshold to maintain an impression of strong reliability.

[steve68]

[QUOTE=lti_57;4431729]
Bring
More
Wallet


Bring
More
Wrench's

Break
My
Wallet

Black
Mans
Wheels

all from my friend who was a BMW mechanic at one time,

my E60, has a 102K going to do some gasket work this weekend, 1st time touching the motor for 3yrs 60K except oil changes,

[flyboyx]

for me, the epitome of unreliability is actually anything manufactured in great britan. thats just me though....

[GillesBigCowboy]

Some cars are reliable in stop and go traffic, and some cars are reliable on track.

[lti_57]

Bring
More
Wallet

I love my 87 325i everything works.
My 86 Audi 5000 wagon was a technological marvel and ran forever.
just the normal maintenance stuff.
98 Jetta another great running car. daughter drove it for years then i got it drove it some more.
I did like the article pretty funny

[James Crivellone]

I've spent over 60k on my e30s and vw over the past 12 years.
my sister has spend less than 2k on her toyota in the same amount of time.
she owns a house, i still rent.

True, but you are also an enthusiast. I've spent equal amounts on my project cars, but if I left my Mtech alone for instance.. yeah it would have probably needed a part here and there, but lets face it an 86 Eta / Automatic will probably run nearly forever.

If the tranny went toss in another one for 200 bucks for another 80 - 100k miles.

Hard to compare Enthusiast vs factory level reliability :-)

[James Crivellone]

Reliability? eh I think it all falls under maintenance, however modern complication certainly does lead to less reliability overall

Take my E30 Touring for instance, nearly 100K miles, original clutch, most of the bushings, linkage, etc, have redone a few things here and there, original coolant hoses, radiator, etc, and it starts everytime I start it, and drives every time I want to.

Only stopping issue? Lost a cluster master cylinder.

Same even goes for my Land Rover, yes I've redone the topend, but it was still running beforehand..

Only stopping issue? Lost a starter.

Now my E60 M5 on the other hand, tons of technology, tons of sensors, etc, have I had issues? Yes.. In my 4 months of ownership I've had to replace 2 PDC Sensors, one PDC Computer, Update the Navigation firmware, and had to clean out the washer fluid pump because it got clogged somehow.

But mechanically? I push the button and it fires up every day.

I've had american cars break too.. hell the powersteering shaft broke on my old C2500 Truck... when I was going downhill with my trailer, and yes, those have hydroboost brakes... yeah that was fun.. thank god for trailer brakes.

[agent]

I've spent over 60k on my e30s and vw over the past 12 years.
my sister has spend less than 2k on her toyota in the same amount of time.
she owns a house, i still rent.

Can you help me with some financial/retirement planning?

[TobyB]

I think German and Japanese reliability are similar, in that well made domestic market goods are very good and DO exhibit high reliability. However, both have discovered that there's a bigger market segment for cheap consumer goods that are not so
reliable.

Cars fit somewhere in the middle, and the 2002 is a perfect example of that-
brilliant engine and suspension, small pieces (like the 2bbl carb) were problematic from
about day 2. And then the heater box aged out and the door cards fell apart after 5 years or so.

my take.

t

[pandaboo911]

Lol not trying to hate on the guy but he clearly has no idea what Germans are like and buys into the same stereotypes as everyone else. "Germans rush to the dealership to have it fixed." Give me a break, germans are lazier than Americans

Bmws and audis are hardly purchased new because nobody can afford them, and if they are its a poverty spec 318i.
Mercedes are used as taxis / police cars and go for 200-300k until the wheel bearings lock up

I'm not saying german cars are reliable but the writer sounds like a typical American who has never been to Germany and bases his facts off his german "friend"

End rant