e30 daily driver in eastern canadian winter?

[Louie_]

Hey guys,

Well first, thanks for the admission on this forum!

I will be turning 18 in less than a month and I'm looking to buy an e30 as my first car. (Don't tell me not to do it because I'm still at school and I won't be able to take good care of the car. I know in what I'm getting to!) Actually, I've been making an offer on a mint slick top 318i 1991. The car is in great shape, paint is new from past November, it is a manual, seats aren't ripped, the car even has the backseats headrests and the spare wheel back in the trunk (which I've barely seen on other e30s)! Hopefully it will be in my driveway at the end of next week. The car will be my daily driver for summer.

The problem is: here in Montreal (Canada) where I live, winters are pretty bad; roads are salty, we usually get some heavy snowstorms and some people really don't know how to handle winter driving. So, I am not sure whether or not I should daily it in winter and I wanted to hear your thoughts about this. I could definitely store the car since I can take the bus to go to school, but I'd really like to experience RWD winter driving in and old BMW. For sure the car would be on 4 good winter tires since it's a law here. But still, salty roads can be pretty bad especially for a 25 year old car and I would feel bad if the car began to rust since it's in a mint condition.

So what are your thoughts on this one?

1. Snow driving a RWD is too much fun to store the car and the purpose of a car is to be driven regardless on weather conditions
2. Such a car should never see snow and should be kept in a heated spot from November to mid April

Thanks for your advice!

*English isn't my first language, hope you can understand!

[Panici]

Hey Louie!

First of all, your English is excellent. I wouldn't have known it was your second language unless you mentioned it. It's certainly MUCH better then my French!


I'm from Ontario, Niagara region.
I know first hand all about the road salt and rust here.

Here are some points to consider from my experience:

• Make sure the car you are considering is actually in mint condition. Unless it was a summer only car, I have serious doubts.

Take someone with you to look at the car, someone who has experience and knows where to look for the troubled areas.

Here is a picture of an '86 325e I picked up in 2014. Looks clean from the outside?



Here is a picture after I got it all stripped apart. Bodywork can hide a lot.



That subframe mount ended up collapsing when I jacked near it, and the car was toast. Here is me finally getting rid of the shell last night.



If you want to read more about my experience, the "build" thread for that car is here:
www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=318526




Anyways, back to your questions.

I found an '87 325is with 160,000km on it, and after stripping it down, there are still rust issues. These ones are manageable though, and I'll be fixing it. (Build thread in my sig)

There is NO WAY I would drive it during the winter. I plan to keep the car as long as I can, so I don't want to encourage further rust. I park the car before the snow flies in the fall, and don't drive it until the spring when there is no chance of snow, and all the salt has be washed/cleaned away. (I'm waiting until the beginning of May this year.) Unfortunately I don't have an indoor space for it, but covered in the driveway is still better then driven through the salt.

There is nothing you can do to stop rust. Krown undercoating does help, but only slows down the damage. I've just started dealing with the rust on my Jeep and it's an uphill battle. It's not impossible, but nor is it fun.



With some practice, a RWD vehicle is certainly drivable in the winter, and a lot of fun! (an LSD helps as well). My Jeep TJ is RWD under normal conditions, (part time 4wd, open differentials front and back) and even with all-season tires I never have trouble.

Basically the only time I use 4wd is after a snowstorm and before they've plowed the roads. And even then I just use it to get out of deep snow drifts. Going down the road it's still in 2wd only.


Practice of car control is important, you should spend some significant time in empty parking lots (that you know well, to avoid curbs) and learn what understeer and oversteer feel like, so you can correct without thinking about it should it happen on the road. That muscle memory is important, and part of what separates your average driver from a driving enthusiast.


Bottom line?
I would recommend you find a 5-speed E36 and learn on that. For the same money as a beat-down E30, you'll be able to find an E36 in decent shape. Try to get one with maintenance history, because older BMWs can nickel and dime you with repairs. The E36 is a great car, and anything from a 318i upto a 328i will be fun for you.

If you are set on an E30, find one that has enough rust to make it difficult/impossible to repair, but not enough that it is unsafe.

[BobombETA]

I daily'd my e30 year round when I had it... Rust is a real bitch, I'd avoid driving a rust-free car in the winter.

As far as getting around, it wasn't too bad. Mine had all-season tires and an open differential. I'm sure with winter tires and an LSD it would be have been stellar.

I'll second the e36... I have a 99 M3 and it does everything better than my e30 ever did, except style points, which is subjective.

[estoguy]

Going to be the voice of dissent... I've been driving my E30 for over 3 years as a daily. Yes, in Canada, rust is always an issue, even if you don't winter drive.

Honestly, if you want to drive it all year round, do it! Personally I don't have money for a second car.

Cars are meant to be driven. If you keep on top of any rust issues, you can certainly mitigate things. Wash it often during the winter. I have the advantage of being able to wash it indoors every two weeks at work, including the undercarriage.

If you've never driven a rear wheel drive car before, there will be a learning curve, but I found it very easy. As long as the car is in good shape, you'll find it to be pretty competent in winter driving. I actually find that driving RWD is better in winter now... not to mention way more fun.

Do NOT winter drive it without quality winter tires - this is probably the biggest point. I have Michelin X-Ice Xi2s, new to me this year and they have been super. Along with this, put some extra weight in the rear for traction. The first year I used a large patio stone. I found a better option when I was able to get mini patio stones (13'X13"). Now I have access to my spare without pulling them out.

Do invest in rust protection. I've been using Krown and have been pretty satisfied.

As with any car, keep on top of your maintenance. You'll be able to DIY a lot! Lots of resources online to help with this. Make sure you download the Bentley Manual.

Above all, enjoy the car!!!

[Griff_]

If you do drive the car on the salty winter roads you can keep rust away by religiously washing the car. Make sure to wash the salt/dirt out of all of the spots where these cars have rust issues. As a precaution against rust, I wash my car every weekend during the winter and inspect the car for paint chips/rust frequently.

Panici, if you are looking for a good way to stop rust check out POR15. It's really nasty stuff but from my experience it works very well. Just be sure to use a paint respirator and long sleeves/gloves to keep it off your skin.

[Stanley Rockafella]

[*]Make sure the car you are considering is actually in mint condition. Unless it was a summer only car, I have serious doubts.

+1000000 Agreed!

IMO all of that fancy paintwork is probably hiding some nasty rust. Before putting a deposit down, I'd get that thing on a hoist at a shop and CAREFULLY inspect all common rust areas. It'll be the best money spent

EDIT: I recall when I was OP's age and desperatly wanted a 2002 as my first car. Growing up in Sask can be nasty on cars so anything in my price range was all garbage, and i didn't have a garage to wrench. Years later I settled on a clean 325es and here I have several years later still lurking on these boards. Damn, this BMW addiction is strong.

[stonea]

I bought a California car that spent the past 26 years in CA and the last 2 in Virginia and even that has some rust, so I'm sure this car has rust somewhere. I drive my ix in the snow and I've been very particular about the rust. I coated the rust thats currently on the car and every time I drive it on salty roads I wash under the car very throughly and even if it hasn't snowed in some time I usually wash the under side of the car once a week. Even more so than I was the actual exterior during the winter. I also agree with a e36 as a first car though, they're so cheap is almost sad. I've found 328i's for $2,000 that rival $5,000 e30s.

[allen_t]

I've daily driven my last e30 mt2 in the winter and my current e30 daily. Snow tires as you mentioned are a big help. I also either washed the whole car or hosed down the undercarriage and other rust prone areas probably twice a week. If you rinse the car off after driving in salty roads you should be good. E30s are fun in the snow :)

[Louie_]

Thanks for all these answers! I didn't expect that much! So here is the car I'm planning to buy next week. (first time adding pictures on a thread, tell me if you can see them!). As you can see, it is in a showroom condition.

Make sure the car you are considering is actually in mint condition. Unless it was a summer only car, I have serious doubts.

The car will be inspected by a BMW specialized mechanic in his local garage which really is 1 mile far from my house. When I will have big issues I won't be able to fix myself, I'll go ask for a little help!

I would recommend you find a 5-speed E36 and learn on that. For  the same money as a beat-down E30, you'll be able to find an E36 in  decent shape. Try to get one with maintenance history, because older  BMWs can nickel and dime you with repairs. The E36 is a great car, and  anything from a 318i upto a 328i will be fun for you.

I did consider going for an e36 since they are cheaper here, but they seem to be real rust buckets. So, finding a clean rust free and bone stock manual e36 can be quite hard too. Also, keeping in mind I'm only 17, insurance would cost much more driving a 328i or a 325i than a 318i. Plus, I've been looking for an e30 over a year now and I just feel like I found the one that fits exactly what I was searching for, i.e. a 4 door manual late model 318i with the m42 with any paint but white, grey or bright red. I feel like not buying this car would be a wasted opportunity. And IMO, e30s just look so better than the e36, even if the e36 isn't that bad either!

[stonea]

The car looks pretty clean, but like everyone has been saying, that doesn't really mean it is clean. When you go get the PPI make sure the guy looks EVERY where for rust. Take off heat shields, pull back trunk liner and the carpet, and I'd even take off the trunk and hood gasket to check under there.

[rturbo 930]

I'd even take off the trunk and hood gasket to check under there.

Yup, several times now I've bought an old car and removed the weather stripping to find a bunch of rust underneath. Pain in the ass to fix too, since it's not in the middle of a panel, but at the joint of two (or more) panels.

I would never DD a rust free car during winter personally.

[HerbE30]

E30s make GREAT snow cars if you run an LSD and winter tires. Best snow car I have owned hands down, it will slide, but it is predictable. I always chose my e30 over my 4x4 Xterra in the snow because of the fun/predictable factor.

Winter tires and LSD is a must IMHO!!!

[dnguyen1963]

I drive my car year round through snow and salt. The way I keep the rust down to minimum is to spray plastidip under the car except for the exhaust. I don't wash the car in the winter. It is a vert so I don't take it through the car wash. I have not seen any rust under the car yet.

[jasonbk]

I've been driving my e30 as daily for almost 5 years now. It was barely driven and had no rust whatsoever when I bought it.
Every winter I washed twice a week or more often when I drive on salty slush. (my apartment has washing bay that shoots warm water) It barely sat outside (indoor parking at my work & home).

One winter I had to park outside overnight and it developed a rust bubble on the rear valence and at the bottom of front fender.

I'd say drive it through the winter only when you can keep it inside, and ability to wash down the underbody very often.

[Northern]

Drove mine for 2-3 winters in Halifax. No issues. An LSD would help with hills and stuff, but it's not bad.

If the car isn't already rusted out, I'd definitely get it undercoated before winter hits.