turbo or 24v swap?

**roguetoaster** · 10-09-2016, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by haaken675

I have beens searching as to why one way vs. the other and the only real thing I can think of is the 24v motors will most certainly make more power if you boost them and they may be more reliable since they don't have a cam belt. And potentially an n/a motor would be more reliable on track...

So, I think you have the answer already. If your M20 is healthy, turbo is fine, but not ideal on track. If your M20 is suspect, go 24v as you'll have plenty of power, and you can turbo it later.

**Jb325is** · 10-09-2016, 05:58 PM

If you are really planning to do DE's, 24V over turbo anything for sure. Managing the heat on a turbo car is not easy and very few people do it right... I know some people will get butthurt about this, but in my experience, there are very few aftermarket turbo cars that run reliably at DE or race weekends.

**ak-** · 10-09-2016, 06:14 PM

A realistic question is how often will it see track time if turbo?
Heat is killer and so is undetectable knock - things that scare me of taking mine, considering prolonged WOT pulls.

**varg** · 10-09-2016, 06:41 PM

More power is great but it's not strictly necessary for fun on a track. With suspension mods, good tires and light wheels you'll have an excellent momentum car for track days, even if you only have a chipped M20 with a "sport" exhaust.

Building a turbo M20 car capable of taking the beating of a track day is one of my goals, but it's going to be tougher than doing so with a NA 24V engine. The cooling and tune have to be perfect and the stock brakes might not be adequate for the speeds you can achieve with >2x stock power. I'm usually anti-24V because iron block 24V engines add something like 40lbs+ over the nose vs M20s, but it sounds like the better option for you.

**stonea** · 10-09-2016, 07:32 PM

24v sounds like your best option. I'd personally recommend a M54 as a 24v swap.

**SkiFree** · 10-09-2016, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by stonea

24v sounds like your best option. I'd personally recommend a M54 as a 24v swap.

Yes.

Just don't bother with an M52, not really much point in swapping at that point.

**haaken675** · 10-10-2016, 04:49 AM

Thanks for some of the feedback guys! I have never driven an aftermarket turbo car, so I think that is part of the allure...

I live in southwest Florida, and it definitely gets HOT here. the suggestions to stay N/A are probably the right ones. I want to be able to run an occasional weekend at Sebring, head up to road Atlanta, etc. Maybe something like 3 weekends a year if I'm lucky (planning on track days on the bike as well...). My tuning skills, or lack there of, will probably preclude me from putting together a reliable turbo track car.

As far as the 24v swap, I was considering an m54b30 originally, but the part that worries me is modifying the oil pickup. Is that really a big deal, or is there a better way to do it now? That one is still difficult to find info on unlike the m/s50/52 swaps.

**redsubdivisions** · 10-10-2016, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by haaken675

Thanks for some of the feedback guys! I have never driven an aftermarket turbo car, so I think that is part of the allure...

I live in southwest Florida, and it definitely gets HOT here. the suggestions to stay N/A are probably the right ones. I want to be able to run an occasional weekend at Sebring, head up to road Atlanta, etc. Maybe something like 3 weekends a year if I'm lucky (planning on track days on the bike as well...). My tuning skills, or lack there of, will probably preclude me from putting together a reliable turbo track car.

As far as the 24v swap, I was considering an m54b30 originally, but the part that worries me is modifying the oil pickup. Is that really a big deal, or is there a better way to do it now? That one is still difficult to find info on unlike the m/s50/52 swaps.

I'm in Naples, so I have direct real world experience where we live. lol

my M20 turbo has been boosted for over 2 years. Even through the brutal summers, the car has been fine. No issues and it is a blast to drive. The parts are cheap, people hate these motors for whatever reason that is unknown to me. If I ever decide to come out to a Ft Myers or Naples car meet on the weekends, come see me and I'll let you take a look at my setup. I'll be the only bronzit sedan out.

**haaken675** · 10-10-2016, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by redsubdivisions

I'm in Naples, so I have direct real world experience where we live. lol

my M20 turbo has been boosted for over 2 years. Even through the brutal summers, the car has been fine. No issues and it is a blast to drive. The parts are cheap, people hate these motors for whatever reason that is unknown to me. If I ever decide to come out to a Ft Myers or Naples car meet on the weekends, come see me and I'll let you take a look at my setup. I'll be the only bronzit sedan out.

Awesome! Are you running your a/c as well?

**redsubdivisions** · 10-10-2016, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by haaken675

Awesome! Are you running your a/c as well?

I am, but I have a FMIC, so the aux fan is gone. It runs okay on the highway and when I'm in constant motion, but because it is partially blocking the condenser, it isn't as efficient as it should be. I barely ran the AC this past summer because of this. I have contemplated going to a water to air because of that. I tried to get my IACV to control it but it gets all weird when a load is placed on it, so I don't use it. I'll eventually get around to it when the weather is nicer.

**stonea** · 10-10-2016, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by haaken675

As far as the 24v swap, I was considering an m54b30 originally, but the part that worries me is modifying the oil pickup. Is that really a big deal, or is there a better way to do it now? That one is still difficult to find info on unlike the m/s50/52 swaps.

You can use the windage tray and oil pick up off of a e38 728i from Europe, might be a little hard to come by, but not impossible.

Check out Jordan's thread for more info

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=383897

**E30_Narek** · 10-10-2016, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by redsubdivisions

I'm in Naples, so I have direct real world experience where we live. lol

my M20 turbo has been boosted for over 2 years. Even through the brutal summers, the car has been fine. No issues and it is a blast to drive. The parts are cheap, people hate these motors for whatever reason that is unknown to me. If I ever decide to come out to a Ft Myers or Naples car meet on the weekends, come see me and I'll let you take a look at my setup. I'll be the only bronzit sedan out.

What have you done to the engine to make it safe for boost? Are you only using ARP headstuds or is there more to it? I'm thinking of boosting my car in the near future but don't want to risk blowing the engine.

**redsubdivisions** · 10-10-2016, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by E30_Narek

What have you done to the engine to make it safe for boost? Are you only using ARP headstuds or is there more to it? I'm thinking of boosting my car in the near future but don't want to risk blowing the engine.

A good, safe base tune is probably the first thing that comes to mind when it comes to keeping the engine together. Combine that with a proper wideband and you'll have a good idea on what's going on in your combustion chamber.

My 2.7i build consisted of an E crank, I pistons, and 320i connecting rods. This lowered the CR to 8.0:1, so it gives me a little bit of room for error if need be. To be honest, my build wasn't terribly expensive. I believe the most expensive thing I purchased was a Megasquirt built into a DME from whodwho. It was fantastic to have the plug and play feature and start tuning right away with Tunerstudio.

I used a Goetze headgasket, sprayed the shit out of it with copper spray, and used metric blues to hold it down. 2 years later and it's held up relatively well. Make sure you get a clutch that can handle the power down the road, because you're going to want to increase the boost! I'm disciplined enough to keep it at 1 BAR of boost, but the curiosity of doing 20lbs has always crossed my mind. lol

**E30_Narek** · 10-10-2016, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by redsubdivisions

A good, safe base tune is probably the first thing that comes to mind when it comes to keeping the engine together. Combine that with a proper wideband and you'll have a good idea on what's going on in your combustion chamber.

My 2.7i build consisted of an E crank, I pistons, and 320i connecting rods. This lowered the CR to 8.0:1, so it gives me a little bit of room for error if need be. To be honest, my build wasn't terribly expensive. I believe the most expensive thing I purchased was a Megasquirt built into a DME from whodwho. It was fantastic to have the plug and play feature and start tuning right away with Tunerstudio.

I used a Goetze headgasket, sprayed the shit out of it with copper spray, and used metric blues to hold it down. 2 years later and it's held up relatively well. Make sure you get a clutch that can handle the power down the road, because you're going to want to increase the boost! I'm disciplined enough to keep it at 1 BAR of boost, but the curiosity of doing 20lbs has always crossed my mind. lol

Thanks for the tips, man. I'm planning on getting a stage 2 clutch to handle the power, though I'm only aiming for 250-300 whp. Did you get the components for the turbo build separately or did you buy a kit? I was thinking of going with the KA motors kit but that's $2,600. I wouldn't mind buying stuff separately if it means it's cheaper haha

turbo or 24v swap?

turbo or 24v swap?

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