guys with modified suspensions, do you run strut bars too

[92 mtechnic cabrio]

you may have to get longer studs to go with the strut housings if you run camber plates with the sparco strut bar

[pwforprez]

yeah solid mounts would be great fun if it was more of a autox or track prep car.. it was actually very fun but i drove 20 miles to school everyday.

i wouldnt mind a bar for my m42. i should see about getting one made. it wouldnt be too hard. just need a day off and a few hours at the schools fab shop.

[Lance Racing]

My E30 race car is an extreme example of use, running a Ground Control AD suspension with Toyo RA1 tires. I had an aluminum Racing Dynamics sway bar and it literally bent over time from shock tower flexing. So this shows that the shock towers do move in extreme track driving.

Went to a Sparco bar and have had no problems.

Only downside to having a bar on a street car that will never see the track is if one corner of your car gets hit, the bar will transfer some of the impact energy to the other shock tower. So you might go from a car that could have been fixed, to a car that needs to be junked because both shock towers are bent.

I suppose most E30s today if even one shock tower was bent in a wreck it would not be worth fixing though...

[cbouchez]

"Only downside to having a bar on a street car that will never see the track is if one corner of your car gets hit, the bar will transfer some of the impact energy to the other shock tower. So you might go from a car that could have been fixed, to a car that needs to be junked because both shock towers are bent."

That is a really good point Lance.

[DarkWing6]

Only downside to having a bar on a street car that will never see the track is if one corner of your car gets hit, the bar will transfer some of the impact energy to the other shock tower. So you might go from a car that could have been fixed, to a car that needs to be junked because both shock towers are bent.

The flip side of this is that sometimes it will create support that will prevent the car from being totalled. I think Clay's strut bar saved him quite a bit a few years back in his accident.

[markseven]

I notice lots of guys running hinged front bars, which would allow the bar to flex laterally. That COMPLETELY defeats the purpose of a front strut tower brace (or any chassis bracing for that matter). You're entering the territory of bling-bling at that point.

Emre

I am on the fence about this. Dinan used heim joints on their STB. Granted, Dinan products are over priced, but their R&D is thorough and the engineering is top-notch...

[dude8383]

Spend your $$ on smething like a SSK , bigger MC , baided brake lines or clutch stop .
Something that will make a difference from day to day and you will feel it everytime you drive your car .
Hell , how about fixing that ft valance and getting the dents taken out of your fender ? :p

If you, or anybody else, is really set on getting a strut bar ...just buy one of the cheapies on eBay .
They can be had for less than a bill all day long .

Haha man you still on my ass about that?!

I've been busy bringing this car into tip top mechanical shape. I'm going to shoot for summer for bodywork. I just want to get through winter with no issues :)

[nando]

BTW, the Sparco front bar is supposed to be one of the stiffest, strongest, and least prone to deflection. Even still, you hardly notice the difference. I notice lots of guys running hinged front bars, which would allow the bar to flex laterally. That COMPLETELY defeats the purpose of a front strut tower brace (or any chassis bracing for that matter). You're entering the territory of bling-bling at that point.

Emre

you don't understand how a SB works at all do you? being able to move laterally doesn't matter. a peice of string would be effective if it were stiff enough that it wouldn't stretch or compress.

[gearheadE30]

^^dude calm down. Most of the strength of a strut bar comes from holding the strut towers at a fixed geometry. Sure, a hinged bar holds the towers apart, but they are still allowed to change geometry so long as both move. A hinged bar will only ever be about 30% as stiff as a solid bar. Hinges are also a cheap method of quality control. The company making them doesn't have to build a jig to match the angle of the strut towers.

[nando]

^^dude calm down. Most of the strength of a strut bar comes from holding the strut towers at a fixed geometry. Sure, a hinged bar holds the towers apart, but they are still allowed to change geometry so long as both move. A hinged bar will only ever be about 30% as stiff as a solid bar. Hinges are also a cheap method of quality control. The company making them doesn't have to build a jig to match the angle of the strut towers.

calm down? if you thought that was agressive I hope you don't have to leave your mom's basement much - the world outside is much scarier than me.

The main point of a strut bar is to keep the towers from stretching apart or compressing together. being hinged has little effect on either of those.

http://e30m3performance.com/myths/Strutbar_Theory/strut_bar_theory.htm

[10/10ths]

^ That write-up on strut bars was what finally convinced me to run them a couple of years ago. Interesting stuff about tension stress for track cars/cornering. Actually, there is lots of other good info on that site as well!

I do believe strut bars make a difference, but can you feel it? I cant say that I did cause I had switched to coilovers along with strut bars at the same time and I have never used them on any other car. Not likely to feel a difference on a street car/street tires. I run the cheapie sparco bar up front, no-name bar for the rear.

[ColdAccord]

Easy The Sparco bar is empty in the middle. I can't find a good pic, but this will give you an idea:



You can still access the camber plates with the bar in place.

Emre

awesome, just what I wanted to know.

will it clear an s50?

[markseven]

The main point of a strut bar is to keep the towers from stretching apart or compressing together. being hinged has little effect on either of those.

Werd.

[Emre]

you don't understand how a SB works at all do you? being able to move laterally doesn't matter. a peice of string would be effective if it were stiff enough that it wouldn't stretch or compress.

No need to be snarky about it. I'm just a professor of medicine...not an automotive engineer. However, I have been doing this track stuff for a long time and I have several friends who are professional (i.e., factory) rally drivers. After spending so much time on the track, in the pits, and in the shop, I have picked up a thing or two about building track cars over the years.

All the rally cars and high-level race cars (hillclimb, circuit, etc.) that I've seen not only have strut bars without hinges...but they have strut bars that are fully triangulated (fixed to the firewall). That means extra complexity, almost double the weight, and considerably more difficulty with servicing.

So, you figure there has to be some advantage to keeping a fixed geometry beyond merely keeping the tops of the towers apart, right?

And I'm sure you know that the only reason to have a hinged bar is to make servicing marginally easier. It's not like it's a good thing to have hinges in a chassis brace.

My point is, as long as you're going to spend a few bucks on a strut tower brace, might as well get something like the Sparco that will do it's job with minimal compromise. It's cheap, too. What more do you want?

Emre

[markseven]

No need to be snarky about it. I'm just a professor of medicine...not an automotive engineer. However, I have been doing this track stuff for a long time and I have several friends who are professional (i.e., factory) rally drivers. After spending so much time on the track, in the pits, and in the shop, I have picked up a thing or two about building track cars over the years.

All the rally cars and high-level race cars (hillclimb, circuit, etc.) that I've seen not only have strut bars without hinges...but they have strut bars that are fully triangulated (fixed to the firewall). That means extra complexity, almost double the weight, and considerably more difficulty with servicing.

So, you figure there has to be some advantage to keeping a fixed geometry beyond merely keeping the tops of the towers apart, right?

And I'm sure you know that the only reason to have a hinged bar is to make servicing marginally easier. It's not like it's a good thing to have hinges in a chassis brace.

My point is, as long as you're going to spend a few bucks on a strut tower brace, might as well get something like the Sparco that will do it's job with minimal compromise. It's cheap, too. What more do you want?

Emre

Not to labor the topic, but Rally cars take flight on a regular basis, with reentry necessitating beefy reinforcements. A standard strut tower and brace are no match for Rally antics :D