My e30 DTM car copy build

[Bill-B]

Humm after doing some thinking. Im going to be building a nice s14 and it will be able to rev to 8500. In a year or two after the car is done i know im going to want more power, but since i jsut cant get myself to put a chevy V8 in an e30 m3 DTM replica. The most logical thing to do in my mind is boost the s14. its a perfict motor for boost. High RPM friendly, and the cylinderhead flows supurbly. Plus this way i can keep the weight done to a minimuim

That idea gets two thumbs up :up::up:

[UNHCLL]

Humm after doing some thinking. Im going to be building a nice s14 and it will be able to rev to 8500. In a year or two after the car is done i know im going to want more power, but since i jsut cant get myself to put a chevy V8 in an e30 m3 DTM replica. The most logical thing to do in my mind is boost the s14. its a perfict motor for boost. High RPM friendly, and the cylinderhead flows supurbly. Plus this way i can keep the weight done to a minimuim

Eric,

Again... I'm going to try and say this nicely.
I live and breathe the S14. I see ~30 different motors every year. I've seen more rebuilds than I want to think about.

Now what does my experience have to do with your specific goals you ask?

To build a motor that can safely rev to 8500rpm, even if you have all the Motorsport valvetrain parts, you're going to need some serious pistons and serious CR to make this all work together and extract any USEABLE power. I'm not talking about a 280hp build at 8450rpm. That is worthless. Now, once you're done building this awesome high revving motor... you're goal is to use it for a year or 2. Excellent! Once you're done with this stage, and you feel you're ready for more power... you're thinking boost right? COOL! There have been a large(r) number of people who have been boosting S14's lately. This equates to more help/guidance/information for you when you do it.

However, you've now spent a lot, not just a lot, a whole lot of $$ on this 8500RPM screamer. You won't get that money back selling the engine. You won't get that money back selling the parts. You also now have an engine whose internals/cams/springs are nowhere near well suited for Forced Induction.

Start at square one all over again and begin spending even more money.

Kind of backwards, and a waste of financial means. If you've got them to waste, cool.. but if you work hard for those means, you might want to reconsider.

Take a look at doing a low CR build right from the start. Build in a margin of saftey. Start with reduced boost levels, smaller turbo, etc. Build your confidence and as you go, increase your boost. You'll grow and learn with the car, instead of forcing yourself to essentially RELEARN the entire car after going from a NA 8500RPM capable S14 to a FI S14.


I think you've got some great drive and clearly have a true passion to see this happen. However, sometimes you can be blinded by the passion, and not see the forest through the trees.


Just my $.02.
-Chris

[Turf1600]

put dual webers on it

[///meric]

Eric,

Again... I'm going to try and say this nicely.
I live and breathe the S14. I see ~30 different motors every year. I've seen more rebuilds than I want to think about.

Now what does my experience have to do with your specific goals you ask?

To build a motor that can safely rev to 8500rpm, even if you have all the Motorsport valvetrain parts, you're going to need some serious pistons and serious CR to make this all work together and extract any USEABLE power. I'm not talking about a 280hp build at 8450rpm. That is worthless. Now, once you're done building this awesome high revving motor... you're goal is to use it for a year or 2. Excellent! Once you're done with this stage, and you feel you're ready for more power... you're thinking boost right? COOL! There have been a large(r) number of people who have been boosting S14's lately. This equates to more help/guidance/information for you when you do it.

However, you've now spent a lot, not just a lot, a whole lot of $$ on this 8500RPM screamer. You won't get that money back selling the engine. You won't get that money back selling the parts. You also now have an engine whose internals/cams/springs are nowhere near well suited for Forced Induction.

Start at square one all over again and begin spending even more money.

Kind of backwards, and a waste of financial means. If you've got them to waste, cool.. but if you work hard for those means, you might want to reconsider.

Take a look at doing a low CR build right from the start. Build in a margin of saftey. Start with reduced boost levels, smaller turbo, etc. Build your confidence and as you go, increase your boost. You'll grow and learn with the car, instead of forcing yourself to essentially RELEARN the entire car after going from a NA 8500RPM capable S14 to a FI S14.


I think you've got some great drive and clearly have a true passion to see this happen. However, sometimes you can be blinded by the passion, and not see the forest through the trees.


Just my $.02.
-Chris

EXcelent post and very insitefull.

I agree with you totaly. The motor will be the last thing i build so this is something i still have a while to think about it. I really want to drive an NA s14 for a bit. And i am much more of a newbie when it comes to FI motors and waht not i want to take the time and build everything properly the first time.

[Firestorm]

The most logical thing to do in my mind is boost the s14. its a perfict motor for boost. High RPM friendly, and the cylinderhead flows supurbly. Plus this way i can keep the weight done to a minimuim

Ls1's are extremely friendly to boost too. Also light.

Who cares about 8500rpm when you can have 1000nm+ of torque with ease :)

[Bill-B]

Ls1's are extremely friendly to boost too. Also light.

Who cares about 8500rpm when you can have 1000nm+ of torque with ease :)

He already hit the subject on putting an American motor into this project

[///meric]

Ls1's are extremely friendly to boost too. Also light.

Who cares about 8500rpm when you can have 1000nm+ of torque with ease :)

dont get me wrong an LS1 is an amzing motor if its boosted. but thats not what i want for my car. Im building a DTM copy, i want a bmw motor in the car. An LS1 isnt the kind of motor that came in an e30. the s14 was a rev happy DOHC motor, its not a lumbing high displacement motor. BMW motors love to rev. well most of them do. and that is what i want something that screams in the high rpms. NOw i know you can do this to an LS1 but thats not what that motor was for. it made power thru displacement, which there is no replacement for except boost

[Jean]

Put a honda f20/22 in it, it loves to rev ;) j/k!

[whowhatwhere]

the ecu



Now i just got to put all this stuff together.

Lots of money into the s14.....and you are trusting its life on a piggyback?

[Firestorm]

dont get me wrong an LS1 is an amzing motor if its boosted. but thats not what i want for my car. Im building a DTM copy, i want a bmw motor in the car. An LS1 isnt the kind of motor that came in an e30. the s14 was a rev happy DOHC motor, its not a lumbing high displacement motor. BMW motors love to rev. well most of them do. and that is what i want something that screams in the high rpms. NOw i know you can do this to an LS1 but thats not what that motor was for. it made power thru displacement, which there is no replacement for except boost

There's a fair few lsx based motors that'll spin to 9000rpm :)

[///meric]

There's a fair few lsx based motors that'll spin to 9000rpm :)

that is true. But most of the ones that i have seen are race motors that need a rebuild at least once a season. i know of several s14s that will rev to 8500 and are semi daily driven cars. And johns Grp A replica motor had of over 1000 ring laps on it before in needed a rebuild. I dont think u could get that lifespan out of an LSX motor that will rev to 9, easly

Lots of money into the s14.....and you are trusting its life on a piggyback?

As stated earlyer in the thread, the MAxx system is the most developed e30 m3 tuning set up out there. There are quite a few high output motors running these with absolutly no problems and huge power levels

[Court M3]

guys let's just see this finished and go from there. He has an idea of what he wants and how he wants to do it. His project bottom line.

[z50_Jumper]

Agreed, Reading through this thread all I see is people telling him what he is doing wrong with his own project.

[///meric]

Agreed, Reading through this thread all I see is people telling him what he is doing wrong with his own project.

at the end of the day tho, i am the one that makes the call on what is done on the car.

[MR 325]

Agreed, Reading through this thread all I see is people telling him what he is doing wrong with his own project.

They're called opinions, everyone is sharing theirs.

It's a forum.