And it begins...

[Jand3rson]

really though, I don't think josh is going to daily this thing anyway. But I don't think a "big" M20 is going to be really difficult to DD. It's a lot of fun, actually.

Nope, it's not a daily. I have a company work truck, and when we're all going somewhere together, we take my wife's car. I drive the E30 for my euro club meets, scenic drives, fun runs on the weekends and for autocross.

I mean, seriously?

Yeah, seriously. I think the M20 is a cool looking engine. Gotta love that weird-ass intake manifold. So enough with the trying to tell me what to do with my car.

[rwh11385]

LOLz.

[Danny]

Updat3z?

I was thinking of rebuilding the m20 out of my wreck and boring it out.

M20 ftw. :D

[nando]

haha, yea, but also oil consumption and drivability (assuming you have the cam/c-r necessary to generate power with the 3.1). "Fill up the oil and check the gas." :) I think he has a Toyota truck to daily, but that might be wrong.

Nando what was your build, 2.8 with dual pattern cam?

mine doesn't burn a drop of oil - but I guess it would if you used Ross pistons ;)

yeah, 86x81 with a schrick 284/272. I keep wishing I had the shrick 288 or maybe something from dbilas..

[Bill 84 318i]

Yeah, seriously. I think the M20 is a cool looking engine. Gotta love that weird-ass intake manifold. So enough with the trying to tell me what to do with my car.

That wasn't my point (though if it were, cleanly swapped 24v motors look amazing - see my old car). My point is that your argument (aesthetics) is ridiculous criteria for choosing what motor direction to go in.

[Danny]

I think he probably went M20 because it was avaliable cheap and it would be fun to actually BUILD a motor.

Thats why I want to do what I'm going to do.

[Simon S]

Buying an S50 is like going out and buying an expensive piece of beautiful art to hang on your wall. But building your own M20, exactly how you want it, is like making your own bad-ass painting and putting it up :)

BAM !

[Jand3rson]

My point is that your argument (aesthetics) is ridiculous criteria for choosing what motor direction to go in.

Yeah, because that was my number one reason. :roll: And it wasn't an argument. Never once did I say, "this is on the list of reasons for choosing an M20". It's nothing more than one of the things that I liked about sticking with an M20 build. So are we done with this now?

No updates right now, I figure I'm not going to rip into the block until I have the set of pistons to swap in, that's pretty much the only thing that needs to be done to the bottom end internals.

[TwoJ's]

An argument is not the same thing as a disagreement, it's just your presentation of an idea or opinion.

ANYWAYS, this should be fun. What kind of aesthetic things do you plan on doing?

[el bob]

M20 M20 M20 M20!!!!!

[george graves]

I've got aesthetic plans for this engine build that I'm pretty excited about.

Me? I love a clean, period correct motors. Subscribed.

But what ever you do, please don't slap steering wheel roundel on the intake mani and think it looks good - cause it won't!

[rwh11385]

I will be doing proper headers, no shortys, but I haven't decided which ones yet, I'm leaning toward the Bav Auto headers.

What?! Why? You have $600 lying around you just want to blow or something. Try throwing it into a mutual fund, minus the cost of a used 325i manifold and full exhaust.

It will get a decent cam, knife edged crank, crank scraper, your usual headwork, port-matched head inlets, all that good stuff.

stock 325i is decent... leave the crank alone. just throw 325i goodies in and leave the head be, put it on and get driving,

why are you worrying about your mod list?

And you're worrying about port-matched head inlets and headers without worrying about exact clearances or compression ratios. If you want a best budget performance stroker, look into what exact combination of parts and milling works, then a cam might make sense.

>>What kind of power do you think I am looking at with the following: 2.7
"i" I head, super eta bottom end, blueprinted and balanced, lightened
flywheel, hartge headers, dinan chip and Top end 274 cam. This is what I am
building now.<<<
My dyno program says about 180 hp with 170 ft-lbs. The weak point in your
build up, as I see it, is lack of compression. 8.5 CR with a cam that will
bleed the dynamic ratio down a little more just won't make the power I think
you are looking for. For example, decking the block 0.030" to 0.040" and
shaving the head 0.020" to 0.030" will yield 9.5 to 10.0 static compression.
My dyno program says 193 hp with 180 ft-lbs at 9.5:1 and 197 hp with 185
ft-lbs at 10.0:1. Very cheap power considering you're talking about less
than $100 worth of machine work. These higher estimates may also be a
little conservative because the dyno program has no way of taking into
consideration that your squish clearance would then be within that 0.030" to
0.040" sweet spot that makes a motor really come to life. As Smokey Yunick
use to say, if your squish clearance ain't below 0.040", you're leaving
horsepower on the table.

- Randall Prince, in his nice pdf about 2.7i stroker builds Ely linked to in about '03.

My $0.02 is that you didn't handle a stock "i" engine, so make a conservative, smart decision when building this and focus more on driving it than building it to be uber sweet.

I wish I had listen more to UNCLE's advice when starting my car rebuild, all many many things i got into started with just the subframe bushings. SS brake lines made a LOT of sense and so did TAs, guibo, CSB... but a performance diff was a stupid purchase and unneeded upgrade at the time. Brake lines, bushings, mounts, driveline wear items were all wise, but unworn performance changes = money that should have been spent on DE entry fees, or the numerous sets of tires I went through, or oil, or brake pads, or gas... etc. etc.

Wear items being replaced might not sound as cool when making your mod list vs. long tube headers, but remember what actually matters when you are trying your car with a purpose, not just showing off to the kids on a forum.

[rwh11385]

Originally Posted by So Live View Post
Its not that your doing it wrong. I think hes just saying with the build your planning, your going to spend a lot of money and not get much hp gain.

I'm going to get the engine I want, with the mods I want. I can change more things later, but initially, I'll have a fresh, really quick M20. I think I'll get pretty good power out of it. I'm really not going to have to spend all that much on parts.

Good ole pissy pants Josh. You start a thread asking for advice and get upset when someone tells you all your have planned isn't the wisest. Decide whether you think you know everything and you want to force everyone to agree with you, or be open to criticism. You're old enough to deal with someone disapproving of your choices like a grown-up.

[Jand3rson]

Good ole pissy pants Josh. You start a thread asking for advice and get upset when someone tells you all your have planned isn't the wisest.

Couldn't find anywhere yet where I'd actually asked for advice on what to do with it, especially in the first post, just in regards to a couple of specific things. And I'm not getting pissy about anything, not getting upset, just a little annoyed that people are making such a big deal out of me considering liking the appearance of the M20 a benefit of sticking with it. I also like that it goes with the E30 as a whole, it's what it came with. I'm pretty damn far from the first person getting bunched up in this thread.

[rwh11385]

You say you are not certain what decision to make, get advice on the knife-edge, then ask for input about crank scraper.

"I haven't nailed down everything yet, but I will be using super eta pistons in combination with a 325i head and top end, including harness and ECU. I will be doing proper headers, no shortys, but I haven't decided which ones yet,"

So the knife edge would be a waste, eh? Good to know, I don't want to spend money where it isn't needed. Should I still do the crank scraper?

If you don't want input, don't make threads... make a blog and don't allow people to comment on it...

It's weird that you seem to feel that you're positive on some decisions, when even in this thread you benefited from people disagreeing with your ideas. But classic Josh there... "I'm so sure about this decisions I've made right now, DON"T QUESTION IT", but then you could really benefit from people questioning it. The best thinkers are ones that not only are open to criticism but also question their thinking themselves.

Not sure on exhaust... go without an upgraded one for now and leave room in your "budget" for misc. various costs that will be occurred and haven't necessarily be planned for. Once its running, and you're actually driving it with the new engine, you can worry about those details. A stroker will run just fine with a 325i exhaust manifold...

Worry about compression ratio more than what exhaust is going on it!