Man wounds robber, then shoots him 5 more times, murder or self defense?

[mrsleeve]

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Interesting points, never thought about it that way and you do have some very valid points.

Still gonna take some fancy lawyering to get him outta this

[Ral]

Personally, I think the DA is doing the guy a favor. The DA has to appear to come down hard on the guy given the media sensation the situation has created. However, First-Degree murder is premeditated, and the facts do not support a premeditation. (there was 25 seconds between the time he shot the first guy, ran outside to chase the other perpetrator, then came back inside.) So, by overcharging him with something that is clearly not a convictable offense, he may be trying to get this guy off the hook easily while not appearing lenient.

[brandondan1]

I totally agree with you that we need real proof. But if we're not here to speculate what happened, what's the point of the thread? To make mindless comments like "should have shot him 20 more times!" and whatnot?

I just wanted a bit more substance..

[Aptyp]

what if the guy was going into some sort of shock after being shot in the head and was convulsing on the floor? If you're running back into store and see a guy on the floor wigling like a headless chicken, wouldn't you shoot?


This is hypothetical, I'd still want to know all details, but throwing this out there, because nothing is known. Also, at the age of the clerk, he may have seen what he wanted to see and opened fire. When I don't get enough sleep, I see things move out of the corner of my eye that are stationary. Maybe he was sleep deprived? What else could be a good reason?

[mrsleeve]

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I believe the old saying "Live by the sword, die by the sword" applies here.


I never said it was unjustified, just trying to get it through to you that, there is a real possibility that there was a threat and he was fully justified. The lack there of needs to be proven by the DA

[brandondan1]

Fair enough, mrsleeve. You provided a reasonable argument, but there are others who think the guy is fully justified in shooting an incoherent man 5 times, no matter the circumstance. Not to mention those going after me(sometimes personally) for backing the most probable situation. So I had to reiterate..

aptyp whatever, if you read the thread you would realize that I didn't start any attacks. Calling OK Hicksville isn't personally attacking anyone. I could say that same about Texas (where I live btw). I was called out first, So I don't get where you're coming from at all.

Oh well, not gonna waste anymore time on this.

[Aptyp]

relax mrsleeve, our judy-garland friend only read as far as he comprehended before he started attacking people for no apparent reason. Thank you for bringing name calling into a one of the first logical r3v discussions in Off-Topic.


There's a huge difference between theft and armed robbery. These guys didn't break into a store after hours while putting no lives in danger... No, they brought weapons. When you choose to live by the way of a gun, be prepared to be shot. At the age of sixteen, you'd think kids would know better than to rob places at gun point. And this has very little to do with education, as none of my teachers EVER told me not to rob places at gun point, neither did my parents. Common sense should have prevented those two idiots from walking into any store with guns drawn.

[mrsleeve]

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I have provided said examples for you, You dont know that he was not a threat, we are just saying there is the possibility and non of us were there.

[brandondan1]

Right, hicksville.

You are obviously another astounding example of our fine public education system.

I digress...

Excessive? Maybe. Justified? HELL YES! Why does anyone think that the criminals do not deserve to die? IIRC, the pharamcist was also shot. Maybe his buddy that got away will reconsider his life of crime after watching his partner get blown away while committing a felony.

IMHO, it's too bad he wasn't able to eliminate the other kid who got away.

Ok there, Rambo. Let's just execute everyone in prison while we're at it. Typical redneck mentality.

Thanks for proving my point about the fine citizens of Hicksville..

A lot of you are saying we're wrong for thinking the kid wasn't a threat, yet you have NO CLUE yourself that that wasn't the case. What's more probable? That a kid who was shot in the head was no longer a threat, or that he was fully coherent and about to go on a killing spree? Give me a break. Sure, a head shot isn't always fatal, but show me a person that didn't need intensive care to survive, and didn't have severe brain damage afterward (barely able to function)...

But whatever, I suppose the hard facts are going to come out soon. Unless this kid is some kind of miracle statistic anomaly, we're fully justified in taking this stance.

[z31maniac]

Please don't turn this into a race issue... Don't tell me they weren't robbing a pharmacy with an old white guy behind a counter for no reason. They had to case the place and know what they're dealing with, right? Are you saying they wouldn't rob the place if pharmacist was black? If black pharmacist shot black teens (happens a lot)? This isn't a rhetorical situation, it happened, and perhaps lesson to be learned from it for the rest of snot-nosed punks who think they can point a weapon without consequences.

Ridiculous statements there.

Liberals have institutionalized racism for decades, while claiming to be the "Party of Compassion."

[Aptyp]

The Black guy would already be in prison.

Oklahoma aint Berkeley fellas. But it isn't Birmingham Alabama in 1962 either.

Please don't turn this into a race issue... Don't tell me they weren't robbing a pharmacy with an old white guy behind a counter for no reason. They had to case the place and know what they're dealing with, right? Are you saying they wouldn't rob the place if pharmacist was black? If black pharmacist shot black teens (happens a lot)? This isn't a rhetorical situation, it happened, and perhaps lesson to be learned from it for the rest of snot-nosed punks who think they can point a weapon without consequences.

Ridiculous statements there.

[z31maniac]

I think the old guy is screwed. I'm a right-wing, pro second amendment bigot and even I think he over-reacted a tad. The district attorney's office is going to be under a shitload of pressure over this.

Play devil's advocate for a moment and try to imagine the unbelievable scenario in which two white guys robbed a soul-food restaurant at gunpoint. Imagine Tyrone the cashier in place of Jerome the pharmacist (hey, the name works!). None of would be having this discussion would we?

The Black guy would already be in prison.

Oklahoma aint Berkeley fellas. But it isn't Birmingham Alabama in 1962 either.

Judging the sentiment in this state, at least in Tulsa anyway, I think the DA will be hard pressed to get a conviction.

I hope I'm right.

[mrsleeve]

I bet that guy wont ever get robbed again. People think they can get away with this shit and only spend a few years in jail....

Might not work out like that, might get some guys in there after revenge.

like this guy

Lance Thomas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkWgp2abM2w

[mattdk318i]

I bet that guy wont ever get robbed again. People think they can get away with this shit and only spend a few years in jail....

[kroberts]

I think the old guy is screwed. I'm a right-wing, pro second amendment bigot and even I think he over-reacted a tad. The district attorney's office is going to be under a shitload of pressure over this.

Play devil's advocate for a moment and try to imagine the unbelievable scenario in which two white guys robbed a soul-food restaurant at gunpoint. Imagine Tyrone the cashier in place of Jerome the pharmacist (hey, the name works!). None of would be having this discussion would we?

The Black guy would already be in prison.

Oklahoma aint Berkeley fellas. But it isn't Birmingham Alabama in 1962 either.