So Virginia bans O-Care

[KenC]

I see what you're saying. But I still don't see how Government can solve this?

Insurance mandates. When everyone has it, hospitals don't have to inflate their costs enormously to compensate for all of the charitable care for the uninsured who can't pay out of pocket. It's like car insurance... if you can prove $2m in assets, then insure yourself, otherwise you better have insurance.

[KenC]

I never claimed to be an expert. Are you one? If so, enlighten me. I'm up for learning ;) And if I'm incorrect, point me in the right direction. Not your opinion or belief, but a fact that I've mistakenly misunderstood or just flat out didn't understand.

Being an expert and being able to spot a blatant lie are very far apart.

As one who plans on devoting their life to the field (I'll be notified of my acceptance status in 4-6weeks), I tend to stay informed on the issues. That and working 50+ hours/week in the field (actually in the hospital now), as well as shadowing different physicians on a weekly basis gives me pretty good insight into how things work.

You stated that government influence and insurance companies are to blame for high prices. What exactly do you mean by that?

We both agree that tort reform is necessary, however, you seem a bit too hopeful on how much it could lower overall costs. The CBO estimates $5.4billion per year. We spent $3.2trillion in 2009. Drop in the bucket, metaphorically speaking.

Medicine is too unpredictable to be able to assembly line every hospital and completely standardize care. There's an analogy that I wrote in the other thread regarding it.

[ck_taft325is]

I see what you're saying. But I still don't see how Government can solve this?

[kronus]

I had very, very special circumstances.

They weren't special circumstances. They were to you, yes, and most people don't go through that. However, they were not by any distance special circumstances to the medical care facilities that treated you. "Someone paid" is shortsighted. Realistically, the hospital had to absorb the cost by suing another patient for their unpaid bills and jacking up insco prices on services, and this happens every day.

If you didn't know, ERs and other treatment centers have an "insured" price and a "uninsured" price. One of my close friends tore her meniscus and had to go to the ER for a cast and crutches. When they found out she didn't have insurance, $200 crutches magically became $20 crutches, and other costs dropped astronomically or disappeared. Basically, to make up for people who can't pay bills at all, the hospital adds on charges to people who have insurance, which in turn raises insurance rates. I don't see a way private, free-market insurance can remedy this.

[ck_taft325is]

For someone that has proven over and over that they know VERY little about the delivery of heathcare (other than having your face reconstructed), you sure seem to have a strong opinion.

I never claimed to be an expert. Are you one? If so, enlighten me. I'm up for learning ;) And if I'm incorrect, point me in the right direction. Not your opinion or belief, but a fact that I've mistakenly misunderstood or just flat out didn't understand.

Being an expert and being able to spot a blatant lie are very far apart.

[KenC]

Not in the slightest. But we're not saying it doesn't have to be reformed. In fact the opposit. We're just pointing out that how it's being done is wrong.

For someone that has proven over and over that they know VERY little about the delivery of heathcare (other than having your face reconstructed), you sure seem to have a strong opinion.

[KenC]

But whatever the case I don't believe in supporting the lazy.

Do you believe all poor people are lazy?

[ck_taft325is]

Not in the slightest. But we're not saying it doesn't have to be reformed. In fact the opposit. We're just pointing out that how it's being done is wrong.


*Edit*

One other thing on the parents and my childhood... they were TERRIBLE money manages. TERRIBLE. Health Insurance was NOT a priority for them. This doesn't make them lazy. Just perhaps a little naive and or irresponsible at times with their money.

[kronus]

But whatever the case I don't believe in supporting the lazy.

There's this recurring theme of people who can't afford health insurance being called lazy. I'm curious as to where that comes from, because several of you mentioned that you were poor growing up and did not have health insurance as a result. Were you and your parents lazy?

[joshh]

It's only the best if you can afford it.

Absolutely. If we actually pulled the rest of our American heads out of our asses this country would be way better than it already is.
Politicians are lobbyists buddies and large corporations are backed by those same politicians. Makes for a lopsided country.

But whatever the case I don't believe in supporting the lazy.

[ck_taft325is]

No, I mean when you got your face broke.

It seems to me that "oh shit I got a disease, welp I'll just die and let life insurance make it rain on my family" is a naïve strategy that you'll eventually regret ;)

I had very, very special circumstances. The luck of the draw was that I was covered under my Pop's health insurance via his work. This is where I 100% agree health care reform is needed! When I went in to get everything checked out, I was not living with my parents. I was paying rent, at the age of 17 to my grandparents. I was 1,100 miles away from my parents. I footed the bill for the ER visit out of pocket. When I was going in to get put back together, literally, my parents had driven down. In order for their coverage to cover me it would have ended up costing another $10,000 or something ridiculous out of pocket. WITH insurance. Again, I 100% agree health care reform is needed. Even at that, the very nice lady behind the desk said their coverage also wasn't valid in the state of CA as he was employed in WA. Not only that, but that it would more than likely not cover the expenses in full.

Could I have afforded health care when I got my face broke? Yes. Did I have it? I was 17. Self explanatory. Did I get ill? Did I break a bone at work or walking across the street? No. I got jumped by a gang of Mexican's prowling the streets. I've no idea how or why the State covered the expenses of putting me back together. I inquired, they said it was taken care of. It was a violent crime, not an accident. Not a stupid mistake. Not an illness.

Of course I would seek treatment. I'm not disputing that health care costs are far to high. They really are. But as Hallen has pointed out numerous times (as have others) this is a direct result of a lot of Government influence and again with the Insurance companies. Malpractice law suits that are frivalous need "reform". I would seek treatment as best I could with what I had. If that's a bottle of advil, then it's a bottle of advil. As it stands right now, because of the severity of my injuries when I was 17, the MD's told me I would need my face worked on within 5 years because trauma of this sort will "settle and shift over time" and "will need to be correct or you can suffer with pain in cold, hot, humid weather and/or even very sensitive to pressure". I deal with it as it comes. I don't have the money to go get my face broken and fixed again. Nor do I want to get H.I. just so I can have that done.

[kronus]

No, I mean when you got your face broke.

It seems to me that "oh shit I got a disease, welp I'll just die and let life insurance make it rain on my family" is a naïve strategy that you'll eventually regret ;)

[ck_taft325is]

Even having been laid off for a year and a half, yes, I could. Even starting a business, in a down turned economy, yes, I could.

If they tax me anymore as a small business owner? No, I really couldn't.

Would it be a sacrifice? Yup. Hugely. I'd drop the S2.79 I have in the garage in the 318is and sell all the pretty crap off it.

The fact is though, I don't hold health insurance high on my priority list. I have a modest savings to cover the kid and wife. Would this cover a severe injury or ill-ness? No, but I'd sell everything I could, including the house to cover what I have to. I have life insurance on myself, so if something catastrophic happens to me, I'd rather die and leave the money to take care of my family.

My wife and I both grew up without health insurance. She's from a family of 6 kids.

[kronus]

The fact is that most people can afford it in this Country. There's ways of making things work. That people want it handed to them is a different story. Can anyone chime in on the stats for actual poverty percentages in America?

As soon as you say, "people deserve xyz" you're saying they deserve to have it handed to them.

Could you afford it?

[ck_taft325is]

It's only the best if you can afford it.

The fact is that most people can afford it in this Country. There's ways of making things work. That people want it handed to them is a different story. Can anyone chime in on the stats for actual poverty percentages in America?

As soon as you say, "people deserve xyz" you're saying they deserve to have it handed to them.