So Virginia bans O-Care

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^

There you go using that R word again, its a foreign concept for most of the r3v kiddies and Libbs in general

[joshh]

So.....you'd rather pay for the care and feeding of someone's unwanted child? Abortions are cheap compared to years of state and federal services for unwanted children born to women who usually lack the skills to successfully parent them. These are children who will statistically be of low intelligence, and low wage earners.

Abortion, while unpalatable, works quite well, and I have no moral issue with preventing the arrival of several million more people of low socioeconomic status who are more likely to end up a burden to society, not an asset.

Your reasoning is that it's okay because people are irresponsible.

There is a place for abortion just not as birth control like many Americans think it's a replacement for.

What it really comes down to is if you don't want kids, then don't fuck. Or take responsibility for your actions.

[mar1t1me]

I'm so stoked to start paying for other scumbags abortions, just so stoked.

So.....you'd rather pay for the care and feeding of someone's unwanted child? Abortions are cheap compared to years of state and federal services for unwanted children born to women who usually lack the skills to successfully parent them. These are children who will statistically be of low intelligence, and low wage earners.

Abortion, while unpalatable, works quite well, and I have no moral issue with preventing the arrival of several million more people of low socioeconomic status who are more likely to end up a burden to society, not an asset.

[HarryPotter]

I'm so stoked to start paying for other scumbags abortions, just so stoked. Or the fact that we wont see anything change for at least 3-4 years, but we will be paying the taxes asap. Nancy Pelosi is my hero, she's such a strong willed woman. She really is putting her image on the line with her tough antics, and her radical progressive agenda.

[joshh]

Capitalism works and it works well.

If we were to get rid of the deals that are made in Government and get rid of corporate lobbying we'd have a great system.

[HarryPotter]

The fact of the matter is that for a family of four you will be paying 10k in taxes a year, this is just for the fine. If you actually have the health care, it is quite a bit more.

Oh and obama in his ohio speech stated that premiums for company owners will go down 3000% basically they will be getting payed to have healthcare for their employees. This guys a master at social deception. His ohio speech was such a joke, 200 hand selected people in the crowd, he had someone pulled out for talking bad about him, saying he fainted but the man was carried out by SIX police officers, not medics.

[ck_taft325is]

I wouldn't say skated. It's a violent crime, not a careless injury or a elective procedure. I still paid much of my savings ($8,000) towards medical bills. After that, I recieved an invoice of total expenses and my owed debt was zero'd out.

[Wiglaf]

Yeah I wouldn't want to change a system that let me skate on a $350k bill. The nerve of them!

[KenC]

This was not an Emergency room situation only. I got a band-aide and a boot in the ass after the ER. The ER Doc ran out while I was getting my aunt's car to tell me not to lay down when I got home because there was a high liklihood of blood pooling in the back of my brain and killing me.

Now fast forward to Nationalized Health care where there's a waiting list for the CAT scans, etc... where the Ear, Nose and Throat Dr. has a mile long list of patients. Where someone with a severe problem is presenting with small outward appearances and gets bumped below someone with an ear infection and then dies. C'mon, man. Use your brain a bit. You honestly believe that the Government can put regulations in place to bring costs down and care provided up through taxation and fines? You're entitled to think I'm ignorant of the system, and in a large majority I believe most of us are (with the exception of Health professionals and the like).

You're right. There's nothing on the reform bill that limits a physicians ability to care for patients in emergency situations. But there's loads in the bill that will put people on waiting lists as there are in other countries with a Nationalized Health care plan.

I'll assume that by "nationalized system," you're referring to a single-payer government run insurance system.
I'm not sure what bill you've been reading, but the one before congress now certianly doesn't establish that.

[mar1t1me]

You're right.

Free market capitalism hasn't produced the highest standard of living and most wealth vs any other country in the world has it?

I can't find an age in American history, except, perhaps pre-civil war, where anything like free markets existed. Corporate powerhouses have long paid and otherwise influenced politicians to craft or avoid legislation in favor of particular businesses to the enrichment of both.

Do you know when the following was written?

The greatest single hold of "the interests" is the fact that they are the "campaign contributors"—the men who supply the money for "keeping the party together," and for "getting out the vote." Did you ever think where the millions for watchers, spellbinders, halls, processions, posters, pamphlets, that are spent in national, state and local campaigns come from? Who pays the big election expenses of your congressman, of the men you send to the legislature to elect senators? Do you imagine those who foot those huge bills are fools? Don't you know that they make sure of getting their money back, with interest, compound upon compound? Your candidates get most of the money for their campaigns from the party committees; and the central party committee is the national committee with which congressional and state and local committees are affiliated. The bulk of the money for the "political trust" comes from "the interests." "The interests" will give only to the "political trust." And that means Aldrich and his Democratic (!) lieutenant, Gorman of Maryland, leader of the minority in the Senate. Aldrich, then, is the head of the "political trust" and Gorman is his right-hand man. When you speak of the Republican party, of the Democratic party, of the "good of the party," of the "best interests of the party;" of "wise party policy," you mean what Aldrich and Gorman, acting for their clients, deem wise and proper and "Republican" or "Democratic." . . .

No railway legislation that was not either helpful to or harmless against "the interests"; no legislation on the subject of corporations that would interfere with "the interests," which use the corporate form to simplify and systematize their stealing; no legislation on the tariff question unless it secured to "the interests" full and free license to loot; no investigations of wholesale robbery or of any of the evils resulting from it—there you have in a few words the whole story of the Senate's treason under Aldrich's leadership, and of why property is concentrating in the hands of the few and the little children of the masses are being sent to toil in the darkness of mines, in the dreariness and unhealthfulness of factories instead of being sent to school; and why the great middle classÑthe old-fashioned Americans, the people with the incomes of from two thousand to fifteen thousand a year—is being swiftly crushed into dependence and the repulsive miseries of "genteel poverty."

The year was 1906.


Our soon-to-be-former high standard of living was a direct result of decently paid laborers who worked in manufacturing or some similar endeavor-usually with one company for life. My father is a case in point. He started with Delta Air Lines in 1956 and retired in 1987, with full benefits and pension. That's why his standard of living was high. However due to foreign competition and corporate heads discovering there were people on the other side of the world willing to make their widgets, while working under conditions an American worker would never tolerate, that way of life for a worker is gone. Now the average person in the workforce stays 18 months in a job and leaves with nothing.


But hey, it used to be Bush's fault, and now it's Obama's.....;)

[BlueBMW]

You're right.

Free market capitalism hasn't produced the highest standard of living and most wealth vs any other country in the world has it?

While I agree that free market has produced a high standard of living and wealth... my concern is that the ones who actually have the higher standard of living and wealth are an increasingly smaller group of people. Eventually we will have a very small upper class and a very large lower class. That is my concern with unregulated "free" market.

[ck_taft325is]

This was not an Emergency room situation only. I got a band-aide and a boot in the ass after the ER. The ER Doc ran out while I was getting my aunt's car to tell me not to lay down when I got home because there was a high liklihood of blood pooling in the back of my brain and killing me.

Now fast forward to Nationalized Health care where there's a waiting list for the CAT scans, etc... where the Ear, Nose and Throat Dr. has a mile long list of patients. Where someone with a severe problem is presenting with small outward appearances and gets bumped below someone with an ear infection and then dies. C'mon, man. Use your brain a bit. You honestly believe that the Government can put regulations in place to bring costs down and care provided up through taxation and fines? You're entitled to think I'm ignorant of the system, and in a large majority I believe most of us are (with the exception of Health professionals and the like).

You're right. There's nothing on the reform bill that limits a physicians ability to care for patients in emergency situations. But there's loads in the bill that will put people on waiting lists as there are in other countries with a Nationalized Health care plan.

[KenC]

The current proposal scares the crap out of me because who is to say I would have been treated in the same fashion with Government involvement.

More of the ill-informed talking points you hear on tv? What sort of "government involvement" do you forsee prohibiting them from helping you? Actually, don't answer that. You've proven yourself to be unknowledgable on the topic already, and I don't care for another "public opinion poll" answer.

There's nothing in the reform bill that limits a physicians ability to care for a patient in emergency situations.

[ck_taft325is]

I don't know exactly what you're saying because we aren't, and never really have had a completely free market economy.

If you're trying to argue that we have the highest standard of living in the world I think you are just plain wrong. The fast food and reality tv culture of this country that has been sold by corporations only leads to apathy, laziness, ignorance, obesity, cancer, and the list goes on. I wouldn't call that a high standard of living.

Those are all personal choices. None of which is the Governments, big business, free market or anyone elses beyond the individuals decisions.

So your point is... ?

[LBJefferies]

You're right.

Free market capitalism hasn't produced the highest standard of living and most wealth vs any other country in the world has it?

I don't know exactly what you're saying because we aren't, and never really have had a completely free market economy.

If you're trying to argue that we have the highest standard of living in the world I think you are just plain wrong. The fast food and reality tv culture of this country that has been sold by corporations only leads to apathy, laziness, ignorance, obesity, cancer, and the list goes on. I wouldn't call that a high standard of living.