So Virginia bans O-Care

[Mr Two]

Jesus fucking christ.

To all that talk about its unfair to pay more taxes or shit when you are wealthier

Do you know why we have a progressive income tax?

First, take a look at this.

http://www.taxanalysts.com/www/featu...7?OpenDocument

Hey, why don't we cut their taxes some more?

The intent is that citizens pay what they are financially able. Z31maniac - that bottom 45% that you quoted as paying no income tax? How much money do you think they have left over after taking care of basic needs? Rent, insurance, food, ect. Compounding that, the poor pay more for basic shit, like food.

As far as the Government sucking at everything it does, and the person whining about how the government is taking over everything, this was posted on another forum when people were crying "socialism!"

"This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right."

How many of those do you want to privatize?

That said, where's the motherfucking public option?

[Hallen]

I love how you guys are trying to compare this to welfare. Not gonna be a helpful sidetrack, especially if you are of the opinion that everyone in that program is just abusing it to be lazy.
You guys are totally fear-mongering. Statements like "you think it's high NOW, just wait" is the exact opposite of what the bill is designed to do.

Well, first, I didn't see anybody compare it to Welfare, but I might have missed it in all these posts. Second, I think you're just projecting, and you're right. A single payer system pretty much is welfare. You cannot deny that a whole lot of the people who are chronically on wellfare are on it because they choose to be on it. If wellfare wasn't there, these people would be productive because they would be forced to be productive to survive. I don't mind giving somebody a hand up because that will eventually help all of us. But the handouts are more damaging than not doing anything.

The reason you could compare a single payer system is simple: those that can pay have to pay. Those who can pay a lot, have to pay a lot. Those that can't pay, get it for free courtesy of those who can pay. That's wellfare.

The current bill is a hodgepodge of ill conceived taxes and penalties designed to punish people.

Now, this is the main point being made here about the current bill, don't try to sidestep this: The current bill will do NOTHING to control the costs of health care. That's a fact.

It only muddies up the current insurance coverage that we do have. Why can't people understand this simple fact. Health Insurance is expensive for two reasons:
1) Health care is too expensive
The current bill does nothing to lower the costs. Therefore, insurance will continue to be expensive.

2) Government regulations that force insurance carriers to cover things that should not have to be covered.

Many insurance plan are required to cover every single doctor visit. That's stupid. If I want a cheaper plan that only covers catastrophic illness, I often can't get it because it isn't allowed. There is no competition across state lines guaranteeing that states with large risk pools will get cheaper insurance than states with smaller risk pools. The current bill does not address this at all. BTW, this state line law does not help the insurance companies at all. It makes doing business more expensive for them and they can't combine risk pools to drop the costs for everybody. The current bill does help those insurance companies that you all love to hate because it forces young, healthy people to buy health insurance whether they want it or not.

A single payer insurance system could actually work because it is the largest possible risk pool available and that's good. However it will only work well if everybody pays the same rates, not the same percentage of their earnings, the same rates. But you all know that won't happen.

I don't want to ever see somebody denied medical care (and that doesn't happen now, no matter what the pundits want you to think). But the honest truth is that the people who really get punished are the ones who can pay, but have to pay the entire inflated costs themselves. It is a horrible burden. I know, I've been there myself, and yes, I did pay all of it off.

The costs have got to be controlled. The way the democrats are attacking it will NOT control costs, it just shifts the burdens around. And when I say controlled, I don't mean regulation and price fixing and forced issues. We have to lower the barriers that create this artificial situation and let things get back to where they should be.

[mrsleeve]

I love how you guys are trying to compare this to welfare. Not gonna be a helpful sidetrack, especially if you are of the opinion that everyone in that program is just abusing it to be lazy.
You guys are totally fear-mongering. Statements like "you think it's high NOW, just wait" is the exact opposite of what the bill is designed to do.

Are you really that dense?????? Ok if we get national H.C. sure you dont have to pay the premiums to the insurance company. You will just have a huge increase in taxes on goods, services, income and sir taxes and use fees to pay for it all. SO you will be paying that any way just to the govt, which has a 100% track record of miss management, waste, and inefficient use of our money. I think its funny that they have to start taxing to fund this debockel now and no spending for Universal care for 4 years. Great I get to pay for my insurance now and pay more taxes to prepay for my care 4 years from now at that same time.

SO tell me this, how is a system that takes 10 years of taxes, to pay for 6 years of spending going to be sustainable and viable long term?????


Sure I fully agree we need welfare systems to help those that are truly disenfranchised and need the temporary help (I am not heartless) but I stress highly TEMPORARY.

The system has decayed into the mess we have of cradle to grave hand outs.

this is just what will happen with O-care. You ever been to a welfare office or in unemployment line????? I have (I grew up poor and have a seasonal job), I dont want that to be my doctors office or my Hospital or ER.

[Wiglaf]

I love how you guys are trying to compare this to welfare. Not gonna be a helpful sidetrack, especially if you are of the opinion that everyone in that program is just abusing it to be lazy.
You guys are totally fear-mongering. Statements like "you think it's high NOW, just wait" is the exact opposite of what the bill is designed to do.

[HarryPotter]

I don't have a heart either!!!!! I am not paying for people are too lazy or too stupid to go out and work to make their own life!!!!! Why do I have to pay for these people!!!! Go get a job!!! Go back to school!!!! Make your life better yourself!!!! Welfare trash!!!

Bring back the death penalty while we are at it! Wait a minute, its legal!!! Lets start killing more of these scum who are rotting in jail instead of wasting my money on that too! Lets ship all the illegals back home also to save money!!! What the hell happened to my country???

Trent for president!

[mrsleeve]

infact name one person who got rich in a legitimate way who is evil.

Dick Cheney ????????????????????




Oh shit thats what MSNBC wants me to believe

[dvs909]

Shut the fuck up sleeve. When are you going to understand that health care costs in this country are steadily rising? Less hard working people people like yourself can afford health care than 10, 20, 30 years ago. Are you still going to afford health insurance when it costs thousands of dollars a month and your wages haven't gone up? When health insurance costs 20 grand a month per person and is only available to the super rich, are you going to make the same stupid argument that "you didn't work hard enough you lazy socialist?"

The wealth of this country, and the planet for that matter, is gradually being consolidated into the hands of a smaller and smaller minority of people. YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEM! So I suggest you stop taking it in the ass from these sociopathic businessmen because they don't give a fuck about you. A health care system where the people cannot be turned down for preexisting conditions, where everybody has to contribute and where there is some aspect of price control will still allow for PLENTY of freedom and competition. If you are so against "socialism" then I suggest the next time your house is on fire you better not call 911 because that is "socialism" too.

and the governent cares more about us?

you call business men evil, yet who gives the most to charitys?
bill gates isnt evil, he was rich and donated billions. or rockafeller. infact name one person who got rich in a legitimate way who is evil.

There's an old saying that goes, a 20 yearold republican has no heart, and a 40 yearold democrat has no brain.

I guess I have no heart.

I don't have a heart either!!!!! I am not paying for people are too lazy or too stupid to go out and work to make their own life!!!!! Why do I have to pay for these people!!!! Go get a job!!! Go back to school!!!! Make your life better yourself!!!! Welfare trash!!!

Bring back the death penalty while we are at it! Wait a minute, its legal!!! Lets start killing more of these scum who are rotting in jail instead of wasting my money on that too! Lets ship all the illegals back home also to save money!!! What the hell happened to my country???

[mrsleeve]

But obviously anyone would say no price is too high, as long as they can pay it.

This is just how I feel. If I gets to the point where I cant do it anymore, I suppose we will have to file some paper work. If something happens and I cant do that anymore we will down grade to the what ever is the best option for what I can afford

Haha so the government has to give an incentive to be wealthy? That sounds so ridiculous. Isn't being wealthy incentive itself?

You are the stupidest fuck on this forum.

Yes, goverment should cut taxes for weathly. The weathy pay MORE than enough taxes. No, being wealthy is not an "incentive." Cutting taxes for people who make more money CREATES incentive.

Also, as for this "14% of my pay" in Germany crap. What horseshit. Somebody who makes 100k will pay a lot more than somebody who makes 20k and still gets the same amount of care?!?!?! What a joke! How is that "fair???" Just because somebody worked their ass off to make money, and the other person is a lazy ass, they get the same care?!?!?!? And that makes sense how?!@#?!?@

[ck_taft325is]

I grew up without H.I. My parents up until the last 10 years worked harder than anyone I've known and had very, very little to show for it. Yes, they were not fiscally responsible for the whole first 15-20 years of their marriage. My pops held down 3 jobs, 2 part time, 1 full time for the first 12 years of my life. We just flat out couldn't afford H.I. While yes, they were lucky to have a very healthy kid and fairly healthy themselves, I still feel as though it's betting against yourself to have H.I. at such a high price.

Now that I'm a Husband and now a Father, I will definately have H.I. when we can afford it without eating Ramen. My personal beliefs and convictions may differ from my own personal experience as Sleeve, but I can totally respect and acknowledge his extraordinary hard work in providing H.I. for himself and long term girlfriend (wife if you will).

Holmes, you're misguided. While I appreciate your zeal, I cannot bend my reasoning and logic to your tune. It blows me away how judgemental you are towards anyone with the means to provide for their families.

[z31maniac]

So to those of you that think I pay too much, I will ask you this what kinda price do you put on your life or your kids or spouses????

This is going to make me sound terrible, but there is a reason I found a girl who makes her own money.

But obviously anyone would say no price is too high, as long as they can pay it.

[HarryPotter]

There's an old saying that goes, a 20 yearold republican has no heart, and a 40 yearold democrat has no brain.

I guess I have no heart.

[mrsleeve]

How is your insurance that high sleeve? Do you have a shit ton of pre-existing conditions or something? Cancer survivor? I know you're about my age (28) and fairly healthy, so that just doesn't add up.

When I was contractor for MerCruiser and buying my own health insurance I paid $110 a month for health/vision/dental.

My girlfriend currently pays $88 a month for all those things through Blue Cross Blue Shield.

One lady I used to work with at State Farm, came to State Farm because she was 45 and in the state high risk pool. She had survived cancer and had a few other small problems and her insurance was still "only" $600 a month through a private company compared to your $800 a month for a healthy young guy.

Fuck, my dad got a quote the other day for $750 a month. BUt he is a 58 year old lifetime smoker, who has had 5 surgeries in the last 2 years (one including removing a carcinoid tumor from his large intestine and a benign growth removed from his stomach).

I will ignore hOlmes as he is a dip shit. other than to say, I have foregone real raises for (you know the ones where you make more money to keep up with inflation) for the lat 6-8 years and had them applied to H.I. premiums to keep it form getting cut, other than when I changed jobs and got promoted.

Yes I have gone with out it before, due to my lack of responsibility and not having the money to make the premium. It was the most stressful time in my life everything you do changes in how you look at it and how you might get hurt. I vowed to never ever live like that again. I have given family members money that were in trouble to keep the H.I. payed up thats how important it is. Its not the Govt's job to take care of you, thats YOUR JOB.


My H.I. is so high because there are relatively few people in it, and our local is self insured with no backing from the international on this. We have about 1200 guys (many older higher risk as well) paying in and its a family plan so yeah most guys have familes on the rolls . Its a 90/10 plan with 1000 a year outta pocket max, and WORKS EVERY WHERE IN THE COUNTRY none of this works on 1 side of the state and thats it other than emergency crap. Its true insurance not a HMO, PPO, or other managed care, I can go see a doc of my choice when I want to, where I want to, GP, internist or Specialist it dose not matter.

Neither of us want to get married yet (been together for 10 years though), or she would be on mine. She has a pre existing hormonal condition, and was treated for depression in the last 10 years so we have to take what we can get for her.. Hers is good as well though 80/20 PPO, 1500 outta pocket max a year. and works most every where.

Do I like paying this kinda of money for hers and not having some more money in net pay every week. No I wish it was cheaper too, but its not, so make the payment, work the hours and move on with my day


So to those of you that think I pay too much, I will ask you this what kinda price do you put on your life or your kids or spouses????


Lastly I will say again. You think health care is expensive now..................wait till its free.

you will think what I pay is a bargain by then

[HarryPotter]

And you wonder why there is VERY LITTLE wealthy people that live in canada.