Most blasphemous words I have ever read...

[daniel]

his username kind of says it all, don't you think?

[Ryan Stewart]

LOL, at Heartland I could get around the track as fast or faster in some cases than most of the E46M3 owners in my pre-swap Eta. From my experience most of them are incompetent douches that would like reclaim their youth than guys who know or care about performance driving (my dad for example, who instead of getting a better car wants to supercharge an E35 M3 vert to make it fast).

[Nairb]

What he said is pretty much true, except for the fact that I like e30 M3's and I don't like any of the newer models.

It's my party and I'll cry if I want to.

[pawi30]

always the ass , never the hat

[imsotyerred]

the last sentence stands out to me....

e30s suck. If you want a great handling car that is underpowered get a miata for half the price. However if you want to hang with the big boys, get a modern contender so you don't have to put down our cars out of insecurity.

pot, meet kettle

also, he did say that he doesn't care for

...all this impossible to measure "driver experience" that I hear about.

which means, quite obviously, that the author does not care for the experience of actually driving. personally, i can't stand being out of my e30....I haven't felt the road underneath my tires in a long time with the cushy-ass tahoe i've been driving around...it's a feeling that i've been missing for a while and few other cars out there that give you a similar connection to the road.

BTW, given this statement, it has become quite obvious that the OP is not a driver if he cannot measure 'driving experience' for himself. This man leads a hollow life and, frankly, there is nothing we can post which will make his life any less worthwhile. let him stick with his e36, we'll play around with the real machines

[5spoke]

Wait, bimmer e30 is back?

indeed he is....

[z31maniac]

Wait, bimmer e30 is back?

[Fusion]

He probably got his ass kicked by an M20 and is now getting revenge on teh interwebz.

[mar1t1me]

While it's true that dozens of cars will hand a stock, or even tweaked E30 M3 its hat, that's not why you drive one anymore. I love to look at the S14 and know how it was developed and how it was hand built by the same guys that were building the full race motors. Or how the car utterly dominated DTM and rally. It's about owning a piece of racing history that also still happens to be a blast to drive. Around town, as a DD, this car is not much fun. 100hp doesn't show up until 3300RPM. And droning down the highway with the motor turning 4K is tiresome.

But to drive the Dragon at dawn on a warm summer morning......now THAT'S what I'm talking about. And those who understand get it. Those who don't....well it's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

[Butler]

That guy is just a fucking idiot and doesn't know jack. I love my E36 M3, its great yada yada yada but my eta is just as fun and its slow as shit. I've really be thinking about selling my E36 to get another E30.

Its about how you drive them that makes the difference. I wish that guy was posting here so we could all harass him.

Oh yea and fwiw,
I raced my friends E30 M3 from a dig and we were dead even until about 100 when we shut it down. I started to pull near the end but not by much.

[structured]

He used the analogy of Model T vs. Ferrari when he should have used Model T vs. Taurus. Dumbass.

[nando]

This just in: Stock E30 M3's are slow by todays standards.

the E36 M3 isn't much of a speedster by today's standards either. 240hp? hahahaha.

[gearheadE30]

as it was said earlier in this thread, a lot of it comes down to the handling limits of these cars. Newer cars, be it M cars or otherwise, have much, much, much higher handling limits stock for stock than the old stuff. Consequently, an e30, along with many other old, 'slow' cars, will be much more fun to drive at a reasonable speed. You can feel exactly what the car is doing, and there is very little isolation and basically no driver aids to interfere with that. They also feel quick when you aren't really going that fast. Just don't look out the window at the Toyota Sienna that just out-accelerated you.

And yeah, of course there are ways around all of this. Turbos, engine swaps, aftermarket suspensions, etc. Newer cars typically start out with a better suspension, though, and often far more tractable motors. I don't know how many of you have had a chance to drive the E9X M3, but it is an incredible car. The engine is absolute insanity, the suspension does its job extremely well until you get close to the limit, and then you hit understeer. But that issue realistically plagues just about every factory street car out there, with a few exceptions. It does have soul. I would never argue against that. the character is just a lot different than that of the e30. It's less playful, slower to respond, and high-tech, where the e30 is agile, eager to be driven, and extremely simple. Even driving the E9X, I never really got this impression that it wanted to be driven hard, like I do in my 318is, or my dad's E34 M5. That's what I find is missing. Not to mention that you have to be driving extremely fast to even feel like you are stressing the car. Some find that fun; I find it a little boring. I like feeling the tires squirm, a little body roll, and the steering weight up in a corner...

[e30rapidic]

sorry but he's mostly right. I love the e30 M3 but the first thing I would do is swap the anemic engine...to an e36 M3 engine like a lot of people on here have done...or bigger. I've owned my e30 since it was new in '87 and plan on keeping for a while so I know the joy (and frustration) of owning one. But comparing it to a Miata is a bit of a stretch. If I ever win the lotto, I'm getting a real e30 M3 convertible and a Cecotto.

now of course none of my shit is stock......but call me what you want.

[7pilot]

Well, he got one part right. Stock E30 M3's are kinda slow. That's why all those s14's are getting yanked for s50's. Sad really, since it's not a real M3 after that. Or is it?

But, what are you going to do?

That's true.
It cost me $4800 or so to rebuild my s14. I can't afford to do that again.
It cost me about the same to install an unstressed, lazy s32. Once the suspension has been uprated for track, the handling balance is about the same, but you have to drive the car differently.
S32s can be had for $2500.
In the fall, I put the s14 back in.
I think it makes more economic sense to use an S5x in the car for track.
I'll retire the car from track after next season and use a regular e30 with the swap, as I do miss the original stock suspension/s14 experience.

The best part about the E30M3 is that it is a totally different driving paradigm than the heavier successors.

m