Creation

[bilson]

all i care about is if my schlong still gets hard when manipulated. thats creation enough for me

Well... said?....

[Nick]

Ahahahahahaaaaa....ahh.
As long as it works as God intended....
:D

[Kruzen]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/li.../l_011_01.html

. The first animals with anything resembling an eye lived about 550 million years ago. And, according to one scientist's calculations, only 364,000 years would have been needed for a camera-like eye to evolve from a light-sensitive patch.

Find me a link to that one scientists findings. I don't buy it, thats not nearly enough time.

All in all, there's in reason to even dispute irreducibly complex system's based on my first point, which is there is nowehre near enough time to construct a working amino acid sequence for even a SINGLE protein within the realm of time that we have found to be the age of the universe. There's simply too many possible combinations attemptable before finding on that works within 13.7 billion years.

Read up on the Levinthal Paradox

[Nick]

All in all, there's in reason to even dispute irreducibly complex system's based on my first point, which is there is nowehre near enough time to construct a working amino acid sequence for even a SINGLE protein within the realm of time that we have found to be the age of the universe. There's simply too many possible combinations attemptable before finding on that works within 13.7 billion years.

The systems...aren't...irreducibly complex...and they've been creating working amino acid sequences and proteins in labs for decades.

And the combinations don't happen one at a time...they occur in different places at different rates and in different combinations all the time.

[Kruzen]

The systems...aren't...irreducibly complex...and they've been creating working amino acid sequences and proteins in labs for decades.

And the combinations don't happen one at a time...they occur in different places at different rates and in different combinations all the time.

Its alot easier to sequence amino acids when you can already see what the protein sequence is supposed to be made of.

I really don't think you get it, so here.


The DNA/RNA coding system must arrange the amino acids into specific sequences to form each required protein. While similar to letters of an alphabet in sentences, only a specific sequence of amino acids will produce the essential result. The precision of this sequence is its specificity. Since they involve a fixed alphabet in very specific sequence, it is quite straightforward to mathematically analyze the specificity.

One of the most important proteins - perhaps the most important - is hemoglobin. It is responsible for both the red color of our blood and for the oxygen chemistry based on our breathing. The Torah notes that "life is in the blood."

The formula for hemoglobin is this:


In the chart there is only one specific sequence of the amino acids that is hemoglobin. Hemoglobinopathy occurs if even one amino acid is replaced; it is usually lethal (DEATH). (Sickle cell anemia being but one example.)


Using the formula for alternate linear arrangements of these amino acids indicates that there are about 10^650 permutations possible, but only one of them is hemoglobin.

(The actual number is 7.4 x 10^654. There are indications that some of the amino acid positions may be "neutral," like spaces, which are less significant. The current research indicates that these may be up to 10% of such positions, which would indicate that there are only 516 rather than 574 significant amino acid positions, in which case the specificity would reduce to 7.9 x 10^503.)
This is still a pretty good finite approximation for infinity. The likelihood of this specific sequence occurring by chance is clearly absurd.

(In speculating about obtaining this precise sequence by 10^500+ random trials, remember that there have been only about 10^17 seconds in the generally accepted age of the universe, so you would have had to work rather quickly. Also, realize that there are only about 10^66 atoms in the universe, so you can't waste material on false tries!)

Think about it. It isn't just unlikely; it really is impossible. It was very skillfully designed.

It takes a lot of commitment to blindness and fallacies to be an atheist. There are, of course, no dead atheists (James 2:19).

[equate975]

Creationism bluntly put, it the most worthless retarded thing ever.

In fact, the whole bible is a joke. If someone quotes me the bible, I quote them Jim Gaffigan, more or less it means the same thing, nothing.

I am "Catholic Christian" but don't even get me started on religion, I think its 100% worthless and a ton of bullshit, the bible is even a bigger joke. Mainly some old fuck decided we would have 4 books in the new testament and rip off the jews for the old, any other book that wasn't one of the 4 was blasphemy and you would be burned at the stake. What about all the other fucking accounts of everything? Nope those are wrong for some reason.

I believe in a "god" figure of some kind, not the magical kind that lives in the sky, but more of an outside acting force that we can't really see. For all I care it could be a fucking rosewell alien. However I despise religion and bible quoter's, mainly because I can't blindly follow some bullshit someone made up. Thinking of past Christianity makes me want to puke. I don't know how anyone can follow along with it.

Oh and back on topic, the world didn't get created in 7 days, and as far as anyone knows people and dinosaurs didn't live together.

[DanielHStout]

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. Why would you lock a thread where people are arguing points on one of the biggest debates in the world? I've read tons of things here I've never read before here. Why the fuck would it be locked? If you don't want to read it don't fuckin read it. Trent's input was valued in at least my eyes, so it was not useless.

Well because it is obvious that it is going nowhere... Its just a bunch of offensive emotional banter that accomplishes nothing and convinces no one... Not to say that it isn't entertaining, but the opposing viewpoints are so for from each other that there is no hope for a civil conclusion... Pointless discussion in my mind.

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Thats all I read. No differnt from discussions about the war in Iraq, abortion, capitol punishment, gay marriage etc.

[trent]

I read this whole thread and all that I got out of it is that Trent is a total arrogant ass... Anyone? Congrats Trent, you get the "Dickhead of the Year Award".

Sorry I have nothing useful to contribute... Just trying to follow in your footsteps.

Seriously though... No one is going to change a mind on this topic on an internet car forum... For the love of god! (he he) lock this thread!

So you slam me, with zero reasons why except "arrogant ass?" I can accept a slam with good reasoning, however, you lack. Why, because I know religion is for the weak? Why because I know my strong values? I know I am a good person?

You sir, are the fool, and the asshole.

[trashcop 80s 80s]

a creature cannot see with a deficient eye

how about an eyespot. A very primitive organ that is basically just a light sensitive dot.
Some platyhelminthes and nematodes have them. They have been around for over 500 million years, and nematodes are the most abundant animal on earth. Over time as these organs were used more they became more advanced.

Thats precisely the point, animals with underdeveloped wings that still exist are a statement for the evidence of creation. Evolutionists themselves are puzzled by how eyes and wings came about based on gradual evolution.

How is that a statement for creation? God creates birds with useless wings? It's called secondary evolution. A being evolves wings, and then the wings become useless so they become less prominant and unfunctional and can eventually be lost completely. Much like how a starfish(and other echinoderms) have radial symmetry(a more primitive form) evolved from animals that had bilateral symmetry (a more advanced form). Their embryos still show bilateral symmetry like an embryonic chordate (= you) but then later in developement one side disappears and they enclose that side creating a radial shaped body. Starfish have fucking eyes on all of their appendages! Yet the primitive radially symmetric organisms are brainless pos.

[MarshallM]

To those that wish the thread closed you can either lead, follow or get out of the way. Id suggest you guys get out of the way.

[Jscotty]

One thing that I tend to wonder sometimes is why is that people who identify themselves as being Catholic give themselves that distinction even though they do not believe 90% of what their religion teaches them? I meet people all the time who say, "I am a catholic.. but not a practicing catholic." or they may be trapped in this double minset where they can't stand going to the catholic mass, yet they feel guilty if they don't go.. or they might go to church, read the bible and then pray with a "just in case god is real" mindset.

[JGood]

Well because it is obvious that it is going nowhere... Its just a bunch of offensive emotional banter that accomplishes nothing and convinces no one... Not to say that it isn't entertaining, but the opposing viewpoints are so for from each other that there is no hope for a civil conclusion... Pointless discussion in my mind.

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Thats all I read. No differnt from discussions about the war in Iraq, abortion, capitol punishment, gay marriage etc.

Man, shut the fuck up. If you don't like it, leave. I didn't know all threads had to meet the approval of all members. You know what, I'm gonna ask that all of your threads be locked from now on, because I don't like you. Is that fair?

And what's wrong with discussions on those other topics? Fuck it, lets stop talking about it, the problems will go away anyway. Lets close the whole off topic section, it doesn't relate to cars (didn't know it was supposed to, actually). Might as well shut down the other forums, as sometimes those venture off topic as well. Good bye r3v.

[Kruzen]

how about an eyespot. A very primitive organ that is basically just a light sensitive dot.
Some platyhelminthes and nematodes have them. They have been around for over 500 million years, and nematodes are the most abundant animal on earth. Over time as these organs were used more they became more advanced.

How is that a statement for creation? God creates birds with useless wings? It's called secondary evolution. A being evolves wings, and then the wings become useless so they become less prominant and unfunctional and can eventually be lost completely. Much like how a starfish(and other echinoderms) have radial symmetry(a more primitive form) evolved from animals that had bilateral symmetry (a more advanced form). Their embryos still show bilateral symmetry like an embryonic chordate (= you) but then later in developement one side disappears and they enclose that side creating a radial shaped body. Starfish have fucking eyes on all of their appendages! Yet the primitive radially symmetric organisms are nothing more than a sponge (like 3 cell types).

You're ignoring my supplement. Read it, reply, and then i'll follow suite.

[Digitalwave]

Hey Darkwing, I've lost track of whats going on in this thread, so if you have any questions for me feel free to send me a PM.

[trashcop 80s 80s]

You're ignoring my supplement. Read it, reply, and then i'll follow suite.

are you referring to the chemistry stuff? I don't know much about abiogenesis, but I'll read about it. Many times people confuse evolution with abiogenesis and the universe creation theories, as the guy in the video did. You can believe a god created a universe, and still believe in evolution and all of it's evidence that is present right in front of your face on this planet.

Example: Look at a lobe finned fish (sarcopterygian), they are perfect evidence of a transitional stage of a structure in evolution. They have skeletal structures that are homologous to our own arms and legs as well as most of the terrestrial animals. They still function fine as a swimming device, yet they are the beginning of a hinged type appendage that could be used terrestrially. Not the typical stupid fish walking up on a beach, but think of the dense wetland environment of the devonian period, where they could get through or climb over the thick plants and alga. It was an advantage, either to avoid predators, or to catch prey previously not reachable. The transition to land would have been very gradually, possibly to breed in small ponds away from where other animals could not reach.http://www.mbscientific.com/forelimbs2.gif

There are lobe finned fish alive today. Most fish that you commonly know are spiny fin, without the intricate bones in the fin. Lungfish and coelocanths are living lobed fin fish. A lungfish for example, it has the ability to breath air via a modified swim bladder that most fish use for buoyancy, but in the lungfish it absorbs oxygen and removes wastes, just like primitive amphibians. I do not see how evolution is not obvious to people.