Creation

[Nick]

I didn't say it made another species, I said it changed it.
But let's say that for some bizarre reason, a mutation creeps in that makes the cat have 6 legs.

And having six legs is a massive advantage, so that cat breeds, while the cats with 4 legs have trouble doing so. EVENTUALLY, there will be a bunch of 6 legged cats running around. Since the 6 legged cats have an easier time surviving, eventually, over thousands of years, and since they fill the same evolutionairy niche, they'll displace 4 legged cats.

Let's further suppose that there's ANOTHER mutation that causes these six legged cats not to have fur, and for some reason, the six legged, furless cats do better than their hirsuite counterparts.
Now you've got a bunch of hairless six legged cats running around.

Are they still cats if they all have six legs and no fur?
Mutations crop up all the time. Most are bad. They die, or don't breed.

Some are neutral. I'm sure everyone's seen a cat with an extra toe, they're fairly common.

A few are good. Those are the ones that cause improvements to occur. If being bald at a young age made it impossible to breed, eventually, there would be no bald people.
As it is, being bald at a young age makes it HARDER to breed, so there are fewer bald people than people with hair.

In the old days, being stupid made it harder to survive.
The number of stupid people declined.
Nowadays, it's not such a disadvantage, because our culture is soft on dumbasses, so stupid people are once again thriving.

[Jscotty]

I didn't say it made another species, I said it changed it.

But the theory of evolution suggests that people came into existance as a result of bacteria and other microrganisms turning into fish, frogs, monkeys, apes and eventually human beings. Because this theory is false, this proves why extinction exists.

So if the 6 legged cat survived as being more fit than the 4 legged cat then I agree that there would be 6 legged cats.. but a 6 legged cat will never become a tiger or a lion or giraffe.

[Digitalwave]

***serious post, please don't take it as sarcastic bs like half the others in this thred***
Expand on this. I am very curious what differences you belive there are and why you believe this. I can understand that there are some differences (shorter lives, etc), but I am curious what differences you think there are and how you come to the conclusion that it happened over millions or billions of years.

I'm heading to work so I'll write more tonight, but I forgot to mention that I also believe most people take the Bible way too literally. God transcends time, and for people to take the 7 day creation story literally is ridiculous. Each "day" of the story could have been one second, or it could have been eons for all we know. The Bible is a collection of stories, metaphors, and parables - not a whole lot of it is literal.

[DarkWing6]

We can prove evolution in an experiment.

Say we kill off all the cats with black stripes down their back. Eventually the genes for black stripes will disappear because it's a massive disadvantage to have black stripes. You've changed the species.

I'm not going to go into the rest of your post right now cause I don't have time (maybe later), but that is the most bs "experiment" ever. How is that anything like evolution? Evolution says things adapt and change to there suroundings. You are not chagning the species? You just killed the species.

For example, evolution says that if there is a bird that has this really long beak to eat food in the area that it lives that it may have had a much different beak, but it evolved a longer beak so it could eat food in the area where it lives. This is nothing like what you are saying. What you are saying is the opposite. You are killing off a species and not changing it. I would agree with you. The birds with the shorter beak just died and the ones with the longer beaks survived becasue they could eat.

[benDASHDASH]

the plane doesn't take off dangit

[Massive Lee]

Accepting creationism is a deny of any evolution. It is accepting that things do not change. But doesn't everything changes perpetually? Mountains change shape? Rivers change their bed? For the worst or the better.

Spend more time outdoor? You will have a better health and shape and will be strong.
Spend too much with your Playstation? You will get fat and dumb, or at best, will end up with stronger thumbs. That's evolution, or how our environement affects us. Why are we even discussing it?

Damn bigots.

[JGood]

the plane doesn't take off dangit

It does it god gives it a push start. But not if the person trying to fly it has to evolve into a pilot through training.

[DarkWing6]

I'm heading to work so I'll write more tonight, but I forgot to mention that I also believe most people take the Bible way too literally. God transcends time, and for people to take the 7 day creation story literally is ridiculous. Each "day" of the story could have been one second, or it could have been eons for all we know. The Bible is a collection of stories, metaphors, and parables - not a whole lot of it is literal.

You are 100% correct. The Bible even says that. To God a day could be a year and a year could be a day (not quoted, but that's the idea).


And I also agree somewhat about the literalness of the Bible, but I would have to understand more about what exactly you mean before I would say I agree 100%. I guess I would say the Bible is very literal, but it is clear what is a parable, etc. It is all true and real occurances, but sometimes it is an occurance of a story being told.

[PУCCKAЯ_e30ka]

Lol

[MarshallM]

1 -

2 - I try and glorify God in everything I do, but I do mess up, and yes, sometimes everyday, I'm trying to prove to you that I think just as highly as you as I do of myself.

But you don't try thats the thing. Nobody does. If the fear of hell was there you and everybody else would be a monk. Your fear for god is limited by your evaluation of him being real. You kinda think he's real so you kinda follow his word. IF you thought he was real you would tremble at his creation and you wouldn't try to be a good Christian. You would be good or you would want to be dead.

Im at a loss at what religion does to better this world? Science has saved and improved more lives over that coarse of mankind then religion which has killed more then it has saved. My science is serving me, is your religion serving you? I know your trying to serve it.

[trashcop 80s 80s]

but a 6 legged cat will never become a tiger or a lion or giraffe.

Not instantly, it would be a gradual change. THe felines have spread across the globe and as they get further out from where they originated, subtle changes happen and eventually the ones that have branched out the most will not be nearly the same as its ancestors. You can hardly tell the difference between the 26 species of felis (which your house cat belongs to) that have spread and adapted across the globe, but they are not as similar as the other genus lynx and panthera that make up the Felidae family. Some species of felis can interbreed as seen with Bengal cats. The asian leopard cat bengal cross has the first three generations F1, F2, and F3 where the female is completely fertile but the male is sterile, but the following F4 and later generation create BOTH completely fertile male and female "SBT" Bengals. These are completely fertiles beings that can interbreed, but are genetically separate from their earlier generations, so are they not a new species? Search Haldane's rule as to how and why this happens, but do not get interbreeding confused with evolution. Evolution on a macro scale takes much more time than a few generations to create new species.

Maybe I should put this in the cat thread... lol.

Evolution can be seen on a micro scale in your local hospital. Staphylococcus aureus will become resistant to penicillin antibiotics, these penicillin resistant beasties are then treated with methicillin then two years later they became resistant to methicillin (MRSA), so these new superbugs MRSA are treated with vancomycin then guess what, later on these MRSAs became resistant to vancomycin now with a third generation superbug VRSA. Now do you think that VRSA is going to conjugate with an old regular Staph a? Fuck no. These are new species (referred to as strains) and all of this happened in about the last 50 years. It shows how quickly small organisms can adapt to their environments and eventually produce new organisms that would die if they were to resort back to their old gene conjugation.

Anyway, I am agnostic, we are not smart enough to understand this universe completely as of now, and following an organized religion is following the views of a person that has limited knowledge of the universe, as with the old book written thousands of years ago that had no grasp on the complexity of this universe, but wanted to connect with the average man to give him understanding and hope.

[bilson]

But you don't try thats the thing. Nobody does. If the fear of hell was there you and everybody else would be a monk. Your fear for god is limited by your evaluation of him being real. You kinda think he's real so you kinda follow his word. IF you thought he was real you would tremble at his creation and you wouldn't try to be a good Christian. You would be good or you would want to be dead.

Im at a loss at what religion does to better this world? Science has saved and improved more lives over that coarse of mankind then religion which has killed more then it has saved. My science is serving me, is your religion serving you? I know your trying to serve it.

....um... How would you know if I were trying or not. I'm trying right now.

God isn't a terrorist either.

[DanielHStout]

I read this whole thread and all that I got out of it is that Trent is a total arrogant ass... Anyone? Congrats Trent, you get the "Dickhead of the Year Award".

Sorry I have nothing useful to contribute... Just trying to follow in your footsteps.

Seriously though... No one is going to change a mind on this topic on an internet car forum... For the love of god! (he he) lock this thread!

[Nick]

God isn't a terrorist either.

Tell that to Job.

Satan and God had a bar bet that people with bad lives would stray from His Word. God terrorized Job, who was a 'good and righteous man' just to teach Satan a lesson...

Nice guy.

[JGood]

....um... How would you know if I were trying or not. I'm trying right now.

God isn't a terrorist either.

"Trying".

How do you try? You either follow the "rules" or you don't. I laugh every time I see these mass murderers studying the bible and "meeting god" weeks before being executed. Now your gonna tell me this fuckwad is going to heaven, and I'm not? I'll stay in hell if those fuckers are in heaven.

What the hell is hell anyway? Are you serious about this shit? I'm gonna start leaving cookies and milk for Santa, too.

After 12-13 years of church, I gave up, once I was old enough to understand the shit being spoken to me, I almost laughed. Now I do laugh at it.

The biggest crutch every created... and half the country has a broken leg.

I'm not saying a "god" is out of the question for creating earth, I'm saying the Christian religion is a crock of shit.