If there was a draft would you go?

[1991 318is]

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." Albert Einstein speaking about war among other things.
War is fucked up. Except the current one, which is always different and justified.
If you lived in the North, would you have fought in the Civil War?
If you lived in the South, would you have fought in the Civil War?
In 1776, would you have been a revolutionary or fought for the government?

[marakka]

Ben,

You're absolutely right that its my opinion and thats what this thread is about. People's opinions. My personal opinion is its bullshit that you'd leave the country in its time of need to go hide in an EU country. Why wait til then? Why not go now? Would you come back after the draft/war was over?

if I'm not mistaken all able bodied men who aren't in school go to the Bundeswehr in Germany. Thats the way it should be in the states. Yes I know thats my opinion, you don't have to point it out for me.

The military is really not that bad of a thing. People have no clue what its really like and base opinions on what they see on TV and what they hear from disgruntled people. I have a soldier who refuses to have his picture taken during his time in the Army because its the "worst 4 years of his life" I also have a soldier who just joined less than a year ago and wants to stay for 20 because its "so easy and offers him so much". Iunno man.... touchy subject for some who give up a lot to hear others say they'd just tuck their tails and run.

[Massive Lee]

I just read the choices in that survey, and find it perhaps a bit biased. Pretty much like when Bush said "You're with me, or you're with the terrorists". What choice is there? What a simplistic statement.

Doesn't the above survey lacks a few options?

No - I don't endorse this invasion.
No - I won't die to support Halliburton's private ventures
No - We've got enough lies.

Initially, most draftees enrolled because they thought it was the right cause and the right thing to do. They should be respected for that. They offered their life for a cause that they thought was rightfull. Years have passed, and month after month, we discovered the whole fraud.

More people are dying now, than before the invasion of Irak. What good is it?

Anyway, sorry to voice a personal opinion. Just ranting on this absurd war.

[Rigmaster]

I just read the choices in that survey, and find it perhaps a bit biased. Pretty much like when Bush said "You're with me, or you're with the terrorists". What choice is there? What a simplistic statement.

Doesn't the above survey lacks a few options?

No - I don't endorse this invasion.
No - I won't die to support Halliburton's private ventures
No - We've got enough lies.

Initially, most draftees enrolled because they thought it was the right cause and the right thing to do. They should be respected for that. They offered their life for a cause that they thought was rightfull. Years have passed, and month after month, we discovered the whole fraud.

More people are dying now, than before the invasion of Irak. What good is it?

Anyway, sorry to voice a personal opinion. Just ranting on this absurd war.

Hey, Canadians don't have a say in this poll!!!! ;)

Seriously though- I understand what you're saying- but I don't interpret the original question the way you do. I take it in a much more general context, that it is EVERYONE's duty to their country to fight for it if and when they are called. (<period) If you have to think about that for a while before you make up your mind, then IMHO- you are living in the wrong country.

While I understand why people feel the need to run and hide, I don't think it's the right thing to do.

It literally brings me to tears when they show these formerly able-bodied (mostly) men who have suffered catastrophic injuries in Iraq. I cannot imagine how they and their families come to grips with that- but most of them seem to be very thankful that they are still alive and are very proud to have served their country honorably. Who am I to say that I am too good/smart/intelligent/important/special or whatever to stand side by side with these people if it comes down to it??

Thank you to all of you who are serving or have served, or who have family members who have served or are serving.

[Ben Carufel]

touchy subject

You said it. This always has been and always will be a touchy subject.

[Ben Carufel]

Be proactive. Leave now.

Not kidding - if you are unwilling to answer the call when your country asks you to give back, you are not deserving of citizenship and the benefits thereof. If you are concerned that the nation is going in the wrong direction, do something about it. Get off your dead ass, quit pissing and moaning and get active - vote, campaign, lobby, whatever. That is the benefit of this society - you can get out there and make your voice heard. If enough of you feel the same way, maybe we can become Canada, too.

I will say that in my opinion the draft is not the answer to any of the questions currently on the table.

However, I also believe that we as a people need to lose the prevailing entitlement mentality - JFK had it right. Stop thinking about serving yourself, start thinking about what you can do to serve your country. You don't have to join the military to serve, there are lots of ways to give something back. We did not become the greatest nation on earth by sitting back and waiting for roses to fall out of the sky.


Another benefit to living in America - you can move to whatever socialist country you want to, and we generally won't stop you. Please, avail yourself of the opportunity before we take it away.

You do realize that Finland does have a draft, right? And that it's not random, it's everyone...

I realize that Finland has a draft. You know what else is a fact? If I were to go to Finland and take up permanent residency anytime before I turn 30 years old (I'm 22 now), I would definitely have to serve 6 months in the military.

However, I'd be a lot more interested in doing that than in serving in the military in the USA. Finland likes to keep itself out of conflicts as much as possible.

To that end, it's said that we learned our lesson in WWII when we sided with Nazi Germany. Not so much because we supported Hitler's madness, but because Finland has such a long border with Russia. If we were to side with Russia and the Allies, it was thought that Russia would simply annex Finland and we'd be back to where we were in the early 1800's, as a territory of Russia.

So, we went to war with Russia and Germany to protect our land. Amazingly, we managed to come out at the end of the war with little territorial loss.

My grandfather, my mother's father, knows all of this firsthand. He was fighting the Russians in those three separate wars which raged between Finland and Germany/Russia. My mother was born December, 1946. The town where her father and mother lived when she was born, Imatra, is less than 10km from the Russian border. It's said that her town was under Russian influence several times during the three wars.

Anyhow, what Finland learned is that you can't always side with the bad guys for your own causes -- luckily most war historians have managed to understand that Finland didn't support Nazi Germany for their beliefs.

Where does that leave me? I feel like Finland is much more neutral these days. I wouldn't have a problem serving in the Finnish army. I would have a problem serving in the U.S. Military. It just comes down to a personal issue.

John, let me ask you this; Are those men and women fighting our wars for us the only people in America which make America the great country that it is? If all of the stockbrokers, bankers, etc., quit their Wall Street jobs tomorow to go join the Marines and Army, would this great country of ours still exist? No, it would cease to function for all intents and purposes.

So I ask you, because some of us would rather stay here in America and work on making this country strong in other ways than with guns and smart bombs, does that make us any less of a patriot than the guy next door who's on his third deployment to Iraq?

It's a much deeper and more complex issue than "You won't go into the military? Get the hell out of our country then!". People like yourself who decide that's the way it should be just make themselves look ignorant.

[Rigmaster]

So I ask you, because some of us would rather stay here in America and work on making this country strong in other ways than with guns and smart bombs, does that make us any less of a patriot than the guy next door who's on his third deployment to Iraq?

It's a much deeper and more complex issue than "You won't go into the military? Get the hell out of our country then!". People like yourself who decide that's the way it should be just make themselves look ignorant.

In my opinion, YES, those who say that they are going to run to another country rather than serve in their country's armed forces are less of a patriot than those who do serve. The question was not "would you stay in this country and work to make it a better place if you were drafted".....You're twisting the question and argument to fit you're situation.

It IS a deep and complex issue, but MY PERSONAL OPINION is that if you want to live in this country and call yourself an American, you should be prepared to die to defend it. If you want to run off to another country instead- then you should be stripped of your citizenship and your right to EVER return.

[ak96ss]

...

John, let me ask you this; Are those men and women fighting our wars for us the only people in America which make America the great country that it is? If all of the stockbrokers, bankers, etc., quit their Wall Street jobs tomorow to go join the Marines and Army, would this great country of ours still exist? No, it would cease to function for all intents and purposes.

So I ask you, because some of us would rather stay here in America and work on making this country strong in other ways than with guns and smart bombs, does that make us any less of a patriot than the guy next door who's on his third deployment to Iraq?

It's a much deeper and more complex issue than "You won't go into the military? Get the hell out of our country then!". People like yourself who decide that's the way it should be just make themselves look ignorant.

Au contraire.

I pointed out, repeatedly (in each of my posts, in fact), that there are other things to do besides join the military to serve your country. There are, without a doubt, a broad range of areas in which one can contribute that aid the country that have little or nothing to do with the military.

The impression I am getting, though, is that there are people who would rather move to another country than serve if called upon. That, in my opinion, is shameful.

As in: I'll take advantage of all the benefits America has to offer: a higher standard of living, relatively lower taxes, an education, a well-paying job, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of the Press, etc., etc. I'll get up on my soapbox about my rights, and I'll complain about how the government is trampling them. I'll demand my share of the big government treasure chest and get my grants and my loans. But when it comes time to put a little back in to that chest, uh-huh, no way, see how poor I am?? I can't afford this... oh, you mean I may have to actually risk my life and limbs?? No way, I'll move to another country first!

That, to me, is offensive.

[speedhop]

^^^ agreed 100% ben

to add to the matter, if you are still going to war out fear of not "looking like a man"...then you should go to war! Half of those in the army, marines, etc etc are still hung up by size of each others balls and join to prove their manliness...or what I see in many cases, there is no where left to go for them and they have been a fuck up through school and decide the army is the only way. I've generalized a whole lot, but from what I've seen this is at least partially the case.

Furthermore, I feel no need to support government officials grudges and personal battles. Who would I be defending...oh that's right, California has more fucking illegal aliens every day! So I get to defend their right to cross the border illegally while paying their taxes/etc so the state I live in can protect them.

The government and country that was built for us has been long gone, and today's officials don't give a shit. If you're ignorance can be pushed into a battle for the shear fact they that they chose you randomly...then go, it's called evolution and it's weeding out the strong from weak (intelligently and physically).

just my ;)

[JasonC]

This thread isn't about the current war or past wars. It's about if there was a draft would you go or not. The options in the poll is simple enuff Yes or No and the others are there just to be there, like all the no's they equal out to that you voted No. Rob is in it cause i seen Rob in many other polls and i'm not to for sure what it's about or if it's what Linus said?

[Jordan325iC]

OF COURSE I WOULD GO!

IT IS BATTLE TIME!!

[Ben Carufel]

Au contraire.

I pointed out, repeatedly (in each of my posts, in fact), that there are other things to do besides join the military to serve your country. There are, without a doubt, a broad range of areas in which one can contribute that aid the country that have little or nothing to do with the military.

The impression I am getting, though, is that there are people who would rather move to another country than serve if called upon. That, in my opinion, is shameful.

As in: I'll take advantage of all the benefits America has to offer: a higher standard of living, relatively lower taxes, an education, a well-paying job, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of the Press, etc., etc. I'll get up on my soapbox about my rights, and I'll complain about how the government is trampling them. I'll demand my share of the big government treasure chest and get my grants and my loans. But when it comes time to put a little back in to that chest, uh-huh, no way, see how poor I am?? I can't afford this... oh, you mean I may have to actually risk my life and limbs?? No way, I'll move to another country first!

That, to me, is offensive.

Let me ask you this, then. Can we set up some sort of a system so that I get "credit" for all of my environmental contributions, helping people recycle and transition to clean energy, helping businesses reduce their waste, etc.? These are things that I do out of the goodness of my heart, without getting paid, because I'm concerned for the environment.

If we're going to be fair, I should get credit for all of that effort so that I can apply that credit to military service. In this way, I can show that I'm helping out on a constant basis (as opposed to waiting for my country to call on me). Maybe then Juthro, the fresh recruit Marine from Alabama who shops at Wal-Mart and drives an 8-MPG lifted F350, will feel like he is giving back by serving while I am giving back by having done my duty as an American to preserve the earth and help our economy for the past X number of years...?

[speedhop]

Au contraire.

As in: I'll take advantage of all the benefits America has to offer: a higher standard of living, relatively lower taxes, an education, a well-paying job, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of the Press, etc., etc. I'll get up on my soapbox about my rights, and I'll complain about how the government is trampling them. I'll demand my share of the big government treasure chest and get my grants and my loans. But when it comes time to put a little back in to that chest, uh-huh, no way, see how poor I am?? I can't afford this... oh, you mean I may have to actually risk my life and limbs?? No way, I'll move to another country first!

That, to me, is offensive.

Wow....

So let's get to the root of the issue here. You and many others believe that it's "offensive" to not serve and take all of the benefits that the country has to offer, which seems like a reasonable gripe.

However, have you seen the difficulty in getting a mortgage lately? I think it's rather offensive that those who were allowed these mortgages with long drawn out payments, that can't afford them to begin with, somehow managed to suck on the tax titty of the US and left me to pick up the pieces. Furthermore, since I do not personally have a mortgage or deceivingly large loan at the moment, if I were to ever feel the need for one, it would be next to impossible to qualify. That to me is offensive. I have to drag my ass to work every day so that others can live off my wages, how is that not American? My taxes are funding the war. Is that not American enough?
Do I still think it's ridiculous for the government to have the balls to reinstate a draft and force hard working Americans with dreams of their own, that fund and financially support the dumbasses of our country, while they (the dumbasses) have the "chance" to sit at home...YES. I don't care how patriotic you feel by going to war, but the ignorance of an entire country supports the war every day by going to work.

A draft would enforce everything our country supposedly does not stand for...

[ldsbeaker]

I'm appalled by some of the responses here.
Despite how some people have decided to complicate the issue. It IS quite simple:

Either you would go when your country calls, or you wouldn't.

The rest is just excuses and laziness.

[ak96ss]

Wow....

So let's get to the root of the issue here. You and many others believe that it's "offensive" to not serve and take all of the benefits that the country has to offer, which seems like a reasonable gripe.

It is offensive to me to not serve if asked to do so - FWIW, I don't believe that, at any point, I stated whether or not I support the current administration's decision to conduct operations overseas. Nor did I ever state that I support the draft - in fact, I pointed out that it is inappropriate right now. Fortunately for you, though, you live in America, where you at least have the opportunity and, in fact, a chance of doing better for yourself. You do not live in a society where you are not allowed to speak out; where you are not allowed an education; where you are not allowed to move about the country as you wish; where you are not restricted to the job you have now with no hope of getting another one.

However, have you seen the difficulty in getting a mortgage lately? I think it's rather offensive that those who were allowed these mortgages with long drawn out payments, that can't afford them to begin with, somehow managed to suck on the tax titty of the US and left me to pick up the pieces. Furthermore, since I do not personally have a mortgage or deceivingly large loan at the moment, if I were to ever feel the need for one, it would be next to impossible to qualify. That to me is offensive. I have to drag my ass to work every day so that others can live off my wages, how is that not American? My taxes are funding the war. Is that not American enough?
Do I still think it's ridiculous for the government to have the balls to reinstate a draft and force hard working Americans with dreams of their own, that fund and financially support the dumbasses of our country, while they (the dumbasses) have the "chance" to sit at home...YES. I don't care how patriotic you feel by going to war, but the ignorance of an entire country supports the war every day by going to work.

A draft would enforce everything our country supposedly does not stand for...

So, uhmm, we should all just stop working? I'm not sure I get your point.



BTW, the fact that I have a mortgage in no way impedes you from getting one - I can afford mine. If you are relying on a subprime loan to buy a house, you should put some more money away.