My school is r3v

[Turf1600]

AGREED.

I would have been out of this shit a long time ago but i keep being put in a position where i need to defend myself.

[whiltebeitel]

I'm not slighting your position, psloan, but neither of you are going to change the other's mind.

[Turf1600]

My problem is i'm not trying to change anyone's mind - I never was. People think that i'm trying to make the point that dropouts are widely successful - which is NOT the case. I've been trying to explain that - but no one is listening to anything other than themselves talking.

[rwh11385]

Just a side note - college doesn't do shit. Period. I was at a strip club the other night and one of the dancers said she had a degree from The university of texas but couldn't find a job. I'm still in school and get paid more than alot of people. Plus, the average college grad makes between 30 and 40k a year. the average college student anticipates nearly 100k salary upon graduation. Jokes on you guys.

It was probably in sociology which you studied and everyone other stripper was probably a GED or college dropout, or working on a degree so they could be an assistant... not to mention average college grad makes 50K overall. High school is 30K overall for all career. Even liberal arts average 30K STARTING.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/15/pf/college/starting_salaries/

"Even liberal arts grads as a group – those notoriously low-paid first-timers in the workforce – are enjoying a bump in pay of 4.2 percent, albeit to what is still one of the lowest starting salaries out there -- $30,337."

Either way - college isn't the answer for everyone. Look at the top 10 richest people in the US. Roadsterd needs to get off the high horse.

It is for MOST people who want a good chance of success though... and outliers should not be factored into decision making.

HOWEVER

-Many people are massively successful without degrees
-Many business owers hire people with degrees to make money for them -
"limetime employees" are just that - employees. they are responsible for making other people rich.
-Many people with degrees are unemployed or underemployed
-A person who does not have a degree who is motivated, resourceful, and hard working it more useful than a pedigreed snob.

Many*many*many people are not successful without degrees
Many*many*many people are unemployed or underemployed with degrees. See BLS links from a few posts back: http://www.bls.gov/emp/emptab7.htm

My point is this: Don't act like you've got a leg up on everyone without a degree because you don't.
.... My only point is that with some creativity and hard work people without degrees have boundless oppertunities.

Yes, given all else equal, we would have a leg up.
They can't be engineer, med, law, etc. And having a degree enhances "oppertunities" greatly.

Don't come in here and talk about how long it will take someone without a degree to catch up with your experience - because it's BS. People like myself have been working full time and going to school since they were 18. Pampered, parent paid college life cannot compete with that. Sure, it will take me 2 extra years or more to get my degree - but I've already got people working under me.

What pisses me off about this thread is everyone is picking and choosing tid bits of info to argue against - and also everyone is assuming this is a trade school VS college debate. It's not. This guy is still going to school - or so he says.

Experience yields much lower wage increase than does education. Who said this was working vs. parent-funded education. You're just shooting your argument in the foot, making it even weaker.

And how many people are you working under?

Picking and choosing is just another way of saying shooting large fucking holes in your "argument".

You assholes also have it hammered into your mind that you have to work for someone your entire life. My point has been and will always be - people without a degree have just as many oppertunities. This is the truth. They have just as many avenues (maybe not the same ones) to wealth as everyone else. will it be harder? Yes. Can they still do it? Ofcourse! Mariano had it right - you guys are dead set on the beaten path to mediocrity.

Aren't you working for someone? Just as many oppertunities? Like to spell incorrectly?

"The truth", they have just as many avenues, but not some that degreed people have... ???!? What can people incapable of college do that a college person can't? That is required to have as many avenues...

When the fuck did I say there's not a single thing? I said there are equally as many paths to wealth.

? So what about law, med, engineering, etc. And what can they do that a college grad can't?

YES a degree makes it easier to get a good job - as well as it is required to even be considered for some jobs.

There are people with degrees who are utter failures - and people without even a diploma who are an incredible success.

How can someone without a degree have as many avenues if they can't do some jobs/industries.

There are exceptions, but everyone understands that. It's just that people with degrees are more likely to be successful than those without. Even if you know two examples that do not fit, and are outliers, it does not mean that the thousands of others did not fit the notion.

WTF is wrong with you guys? You get so defensive when I say that people without degrees have the capability to make more money than you.

You are attempting to make it seem like college will not most likely result in better success, simply based on your biased perception. And horrid argument ability. You can't stand the heet.

Don't throw such a lousy and ill-informed argument up there, and you wouldn't have to worry.

-Charlie

Couldn't say it better.

[Turf1600]

Yes, given all else equal, we would have a leg up.
They can't be engineer, med, law, etc. And having a degree enhances "oppertunities" greatly.

This has been discussed. everyone who wants to do one of these things knows they have to go to school.


Experience yields much lower wage increase than does education. Who said this was working vs. parent-funded education. You're just shooting your argument in the foot, making it even weaker.

This argument was that my experience PLUS my degree will yeild higher pay.


And how many people are you working under?

3

Picking and choosing is just another way of saying shooting large fucking holes in your "argument".

No, it's avoiding my main points and focusing on what you can argue against - which is how we got here.


Aren't you working for someone?

Yes - but I don't plan to forever. I'm 22 and doing very well for myself.



"The truth", they have just as many avenues, but not some that degreed people have... ???!? What can people incapable of college do that a college person can't? That is required to have as many avenues...

Can you really put a # on the ways that someone can make $$$? I can't. You lack creativity.


There are exceptions, but everyone understands that. It's just that people with degrees are more likely to be successful than those without. Even if you know two examples that do not fit, and are outliers, it does not mean that the thousands of others did not fit the notion.

I understand this fully.


You are attempting to make it seem like college will not most likely result in better success, simply based on your biased perception. And horrid argument ability. You can't stand the heet.

I never implied this.

Many*many*many people are not successful without degrees
Many*many*many people are unemployed or underemployed with degrees. See BLS links from a few posts back: http://www.bls.gov/emp/emptab7.htm

My point has always been that there is an exception to the rule.

[Justin B]

This is turning into an airplane thread. cough.

[rwh11385]

In summary,

Originally Posted by psloan
Just a side note - college doesn't do shit. Period. ... Plus, the average college grad makes between 30 and 40k a year.

Actually, the average college grad with only a bachelor's makes 50K on average. http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/15/pf/c...ting_salaries/
"Even liberal arts grads as a group – those notoriously low-paid first-timers in the workforce – are enjoying a bump in pay of 4.2 percent, albeit to what is still one of the lowest starting salaries out there -- $30,337."

Originally Posted by psloan
-Many people are massively successful without degrees
-Many people with degrees are unemployed or underemployed

6.8% of HS dropouts are unemployed, and those fully employed make on average $21,788.
4.3% of HS grads who don't go to college are unemployed, and make on average $31K.
Only 2.3% of people with only a bachelor's degree are unemployed, and make on average $50K.
1.7% and $60K respectively for Master's.

Seems like the average person who goes to college are more successful and less likely to be unemployed.

[Turf1600]

In summary,

Actually, the average college grad with only a bachelor's makes 50K on average. http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/15/pf/c...ting_salaries/
"Even liberal arts grads as a group – those notoriously low-paid first-timers in the workforce – are enjoying a bump in pay of 4.2 percent, albeit to what is still one of the lowest starting salaries out there -- $30,337."

6.8% of HS dropouts are unemployed, and those fully employed make on average $21,788.
4.3% of HS grads who don't go to college are unemployed, and make on average $31K.
Only 2.3% of people with only a bachelor's degree are unemployed, and make on average $50K.
1.7% and $60K respectively for Master's.

Seems like the average person who goes to college are more successful and less likely to be unemployed.

You're still arguing a point I never made.

[Turf1600]

This is turning into an airplane thread. cough.

It's really annoying the shit out of me. This guy is just loving watching himself type.

[rwh11385]

Experience yields much lower wage increase than does education. Who said this was working vs. parent-funded education. You're just shooting your argument in the foot, making it even weaker.

This argument was that my experience PLUS my degree will yeild higher pay.

A one year increase in education compared to you working four years is almost equivalent in percentage return to wage, given the study based on BLS data. Comparing one person, or two equal people, an additional year of education is more valuable than an additional year of experience.

And based on your use of the "word" "yeild" you could use more education.

You are attempting to make it seem like college will not most likely result in better success, simply based on your biased perception. And horrid argument ability. You can't stand the heet.

I never implied this.

Many*many*many people are not successful without degrees
Many*many*many people are unemployed or underemployed with degrees. See BLS links from a few posts back: http://www.bls.gov/emp/emptab7.htm

My point has always been that there is an exception to the rule.

Just a side note - college doesn't do shit. Period. I was at a strip club the other night and one of the dancers said she had a degree from The university of texas but couldn't find a job.

Stating that "college doesn't do shit" seems to imply that a college degree most likely won't improve your odds of becoming successful...

And your point was been flawed since your incorrect statistics and biased perception. Many people with degrees are not unemployed, about 2% are, considering advanced degrees as well. That most likely under the natural rate of frictional unemployment, if you know what that is.

And instead of many, you should say that FEW people are successful without degrees, which most reasonable people have been trying to get you to understand for this entire thread.

[Turf1600]

Whatever. I'm done - because I'm far more successful than you now and I always will be. End of story.

[325Projectz]

This is turning into an airplane thread. cough.

it will take off.

:rofl:

[Turf1600]

it will take off.

:rofl:

I know it will.

[Justin B]

Lance, statistics don't always make people smarter either, and I'm afriad you're one of those statistics. A lot of numbers I see, and sure, they may be entirely correct, but if you get your head from above the clouds and look at what is really being discussed, to the core, you can't really argue anything.

I'm off for a job interview to get some money to pay my way through some more classes after I got axed from my last job on Tuesday. The old one didn't let me have any time or ANY flexible schedule to do any school which is the reason I got the job in the first place to pay for it. I'm glad I don't work there anymore! Kthx. Peace out.

[Turf1600]

Lance, statistics don't always make people smarter either, and I'm afriad you're one of those statistics. A lot of numbers I see, and sure, they may be entirely correct, but if you get your head from above the clouds and look at what is really being discussed, to the core, you can't really argue anything.

I'm off for a job interview to get some money to pay my way through some more classes after I got axed from my last job on Tuesday. The old one didn't let me have any time or ANY flexible schedule to do any school which is the reason I got the job in the first place to pay for it. I'm glad I don't work there anymore! Kthx. Peace out.

Thanks for seeing my point. And sorry about your job - though i know you didn't like that place anyways.