Global Warming: What do you think? What do you know?

[Farbin Kaiber]

There is no reason to even get into anything with you because you pull out all the little kid stops, the things normal adults do not bring to the table durring a debate.


Blah, Blah, Blah..... You wear pink undies... Blah, blah.

How fucking childish.

[uofom3]

That's great, but look at the shift in the society/economy.

We are not an agrarian society, you know that. Saying that more people could farm is like saying that teens should stop having sex; they could, but they won't.

We have changed to a service oriented economy, and as such our society has moved that way as well. Have you worked with irrigation? farming equipment? It's hard ass work. It takes physical strength, dedication, and time. Most people in this society aren't willing to do that - and certainly not on the basis of making ehtanol.

I respect your POV and know you're a smart guy, but I just think you're lacking some realism here.

[rwh11385]

Nope not what I was getting at. What I am getting at is that 95% of the farms in this country dont have the financial where with all, to acquire the needed land resources period, let alone still have the ability to work the ground in a manner that would yield a positive net monetary gain.

more demand = higher prices = more incentive to invest

unless of course it's impossible for anyone to want to deal with farming.

now if the only thing people are doing is shifting resources to corn or other crops, yes, prices will rise for milk, beef, bread, beer, etc. but that's an assumption i won't make

[uofom3]

so you're saying if there is a growing demand for agricultural products, NO ONE will start using ANYMORE LAND? There will be absolutely no one to come in and enter the industry? The ONLY way corn or any other bioenergy crop can be produced is by taking away resources from something else???

That's a strong assumption. (and only feasibly used in the short run)

You might as well run around with your hands over your ears like most and yell ETHANOL IS BADDDDD! EVILL!!! because that's about as much as a lot of people are doing when it comes to the subject.

I have no problem with ethanol... I just think that the resources/shifts/etc neeed to make it truly viable may NOT be viable unless a LOT of people begin to think that way. I don't think we need a lot of things in Gov., but none of it will ever go away unless a LOT of people see it that way - you know?

[rwh11385]

We have changed to a service oriented economy, and as such our society has moved that way as well. Have you worked with irrigation? farming equipment? It's hard ass work. It takes physical strength, dedication, and time. Most people in this society aren't willing to do that - and certainly not on the basis of making ehtanol.

I respect your POV and know you're a smart guy, but I just think you're lacking some realism here.

We also have a lot of people being unemployed by globalization and people whining about not having a job in X industry. Seems like there is labor supply. Sure they need to be re-trained but better than not working at all. And I doubt there is no land that cannot be used at all in this large country that has states the size of other nations.

So are we just to continue to shift our country to employment to slackers with no dedication? And wonder why Indians can take our shippable jobs?

And what's wrong with making ethanol? Seems to make a lot more sense to diversify our energy supply than rely on the same old OPEC.

[Farbin Kaiber]

We also have a lot of people being unemployed by globalization and people whining about not having a job in X industry. Seems like there is labor supply. Sure they need to be re-trained but better than not working at all. And I doubt there is no land that cannot be used at all in this large country that has states the size of other nations.

So are we just to continue to shift our country to employment to slackers with no dedication? And wonder why Indians can take our shippable jobs?

And what's wrong with making ethanol? Seems to make a lot more sense to diversify our energy supply than rely on the same old OPEC.

So I should take my service industry skills and since i'm on unemployment I should farm e85?

[rwh11385]

I have no problem with ethanol... I just think that the resources/shifts/etc neeed to make it truly viable may NOT be viable unless a LOT of people begin to think that way. I don't think we need a lot of things in Gov., but none of it will ever go away unless a LOT of people see it that way - you know?

It's got to start somewhere. Unless the solution is to keep constantly relying on a depleting resource with rising prices. Bridging to renewable technologies may NOT be as easy we the status quo or even possibly as cheap (let's hope in the long run) but when will people start caring? They are already whining about gas prices, but don't want to do ANYTHING about it but bitch... WTF?

[rwh11385]

So I should take my service industry skills and since i'm on unemployment I should farm e85?

you could. or you could just grow weed and sell it. and pass out literature blaming the government for X or Y

[uofom3]

We also have a lot of people being unemployed by globalization and people whining about not having a job in X industry. Seems like there is labor supply. Sure they need to be re-trained but better than not working at all. And I doubt there is no land that cannot be used at all in this large country that has states the size of other nations.

I agree with you - but how do you propose we do that? there are plenty of slackasses who need a job and I'd be more than willing to make it work in that way. That would have a huge net-benefit for the economy. But simply saying we have a labor surplus and automatically moving them into some sort of agricultural labor is not going to be easy as it's going to require relocation (and associated fees), wages that make it attractive, etc.

So are we just to continue to shift our country to employment to slackers with no dedication? And wonder why Indians can take our shippable jobs?

..... Not totally following but I think you're saying that we should not shift our economy in a direction that would further promote the slacking. I agree with that. But the jobs that are being shipped to India require jsut as much training or less than what is being proposed in regards to making these people farm.

And what's wrong with making ethanol? Seems to make a lot more sense to diversify our energy supply than rely on the same old OPEC.

My next post said that I don't have a problem with it - I'm just saying it's going to be tough to adopt.

[uofom3]

It's got to start somewhere. Unless the solution is to keep constantly relying on a depleting resource with rising prices. Bridging to renewable technologies may NOT be as easy we the status quo or even possibly as cheap (let's hope in the long run) but when will people start caring? They are already whining about gas prices, but don't want to do ANYTHING about it but bitch... WTF?

I understand that it's "depleting" but by no means are we running out. Why does no one say "lets synthesis oil!" The Germans did it in the 40's... why aren't we just making it in a lab like they did? Then you could forgo all of this corn/crude/electric bull shit and just do it.

[Farbin Kaiber]

you could. or you could just grow weed and sell it. and pass out literature blaming the government for X or Y

And you could go to the bar, take the drinks you would imbibe and take 'em home in a 5 gal bucket and use that fancy engineering degree your gonna get to invent a way to make regular ole Pabst Blue Ribbon into fuel, its cheaper by the gallon.

Then go to California Air Resources Board and hand out literature for pabst85.

[mrsleeve]

WOW have you ever worked on a farm? Its not something you just one day decide to pick up. With the amount of common sense that the majority of people posses to day the number of farming incidents would increase 100 fold.

Like stated above its hard phsycal work that people like your self are going too school to not have to do. Most people my age have no idea what real work is, an none want to do it . They have been told their entire lives they dont have to do things like that if they get their degree. I enjoy a hard days work it lest you know you are alive an most people in my (our generation) will never know that. Heater you are only a couple of years younger than I.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Nice sig. Way to stick it to the MAN.

[rwh11385]

I understand that it's "depleting" but by no means are we running out. Why does no one say "lets synthesis oil!" The Germans did it in the 40's... why aren't we just making it in a lab like they did? Then you could forgo all of this corn/crude/electric bull shit and just do it.

But some day there will be no more, or cost so much that it's not worth it to pump. Why not be as proactive as possible?

I've run into enough people in my young life to know there are a lot of people in the world who are comfortable with status quo so that they resist change, innovation, or development, but still... they bitch about gas prices and don't care to do much.

[uofom3]

But some day there will be no more, or cost so much that it's not worth it to pump. Why not be as proactive as possible?

I've run into enough people in my young life to know there are a lot of people in the world who are comfortable with status quo so that they resist change, innovation, or development, but still... they bitch about gas prices and don't care to do much.

yes but address my second point - why not make it in a lab? it's been done... and then we don't have to mess with the rest. this isn't a "status quo" response... this just saves a hell of a lot of headaches. We can grow skin in a lab, we can re-attach limbs, and put people on the moon... but we can't synthesize oil? I find that hard to believe.