Global Warming: What do you think? What do you know?

[CorvallisBMW]

personally, i don't know how much of an impact we humans have, i'm sure we've accelerated global warming to some degree, but i also believe that the earth just naturally goes through climatic changes of it's own.

Agreed. Earth has always had natural climactic fluctuations. But the rate of change has accelerated to over 100x the normal rate, so obviously we are having some kind of effect.

H2O vapor does act as a greenhouse gas, but the amount of it in the atmosphere hasn't been changing so it doesn't have any net effect. It's the CO2 that has gone up to crazy concentrations, that's what is causing the climactic changes.

[mrsleeve]

Dude, that sounds like a bunch of crap. H20 covers like 75% of the earth...so you're saying that the weather cycle of earth if global warming?!

When I boil water, I'm destroying the Earth?! OMG!!! NOOO!!! I released h20 vapor into the air the other night when I boiled my dinner!!

Back that up with facts, and I might believe you. But, in case you don't know, vapor condenses and turns into rain...or freezes and falls as snow. But, you bring in some scientific reasoning to back this up, and I'll be happy to consider such an idea. But right now, it seems pretty illogical to me!

sorry its no the link I was looking for but it ought to help you get my point. Water vapor is the earths largest and most effective greenhouse gas, most occurring from natural sources. Now if you have 10 million cars running around pumping tons more H2O vapors in to the atmo everyday this ball of dirt will turn into a sauna.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

google water vapor greenhouse gas you will find many a link to all that I have said.

[mrsleeve]

Agreed. Earth has always had natural climactic fluctuations. But the rate of change has accelerated to over 100x the normal rate, so obviously we are having some kind of effect.

H2O vapor does act as a greenhouse gas, but the amount of it in the atmosphere hasn't been changing so it doesn't have any net effect. It's the CO2 that has gone up to crazy concentrations, that's what is causing the climactic changes.

CO2 has gone up yes but thats not causing the earth to get hotter.


copy and pasted from my other post in the earth day thread because I dont wan to type it all again

You guys need to relize something WE DONT have near the impact on this ball of dirt you would like to think we do. Its that BIG ASS GLOWING ORB that just out our cosmic back yard that is causing the climate change. Its not just getting hotter here on this ball of dirt mars is heating up at about the same rate, now tell me why thats happing, is it because we put a car or two on that planet tooo. I dont think so it the god dammed SUN its going through a hotter phase, its not the 1st nor will it be the last. Unstable weather was the norm for this ball of dirt save for the last 100000 years, that stabilty is the not the norm but the exception to the rule of our climate, there is not a fucking thing that can be done about it all the Green inventions wont help one iota because we cant control the fucking SUN

[CorvallisBMW]

CO2 has gone up yes but thats not causing the earth to get hotter.


copy and pasted from my other post in the earth day thread because I dont wan to type it all again

You guys need to relize something WE DONT have near the impact on this ball of dirt you would like to think we do. Its that BIG ASS GLOWING ORB that just out our cosmic back yard that is causing the climate change. Its not just getting hotter here on this ball of dirt mars is heating up at about the same rate, now tell me why thats happing, is it because we put a car or two on that planet tooo. I dont think so it the god dammed SUN its going through a hotter phase, its not the 1st nor will it be the last. Unstable weather was the norm for this ball of dirt save for the last 100000 years, that stabilty is the not the norm but the exception to the rule of our climate, there is not a fucking thing that can be done about it all the Green inventions wont help one iota because we cant control the fucking SUN

Yeah, I've heard people argue that too. Until you look at the data and realize that the output of the sun ISN'T CHANGING.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The sun is not a constant, sun spots, solar flares, among many other things affect the solar out put on a hour by hour basis.

Ok here is another tid bit of the earth you might want to consider. Our orbit is just a touch too close to the sun to have a perfectly consistant weather, so the ball of dirt goes through cycles, now we have good weather records for the last 125 years of the 4.5 billion years of weather on this ball of dirt. We have no idea the long term cycles of the weather pattens. We know that there have been numerous ice ages as well as times of global warming.

Let me some it up with out going in to great detail.

all before humans had an effect.

A period of warming for several decades melts the ice caps and glaicers around the world, dumping tons of cold fresh water into the north atlantic. That in turn shuts off the Gulf stream that keeps much of northern europe warmer than it would be with out it.
That leads to longer winters which leave snow on the ground longer thus reflecting more an more sunlight energy away from the ground. This over the course of several decades to hundred years trips a massive cooling effect an puts the earth on track for a ice age. now with all the fresh water in the world tied up in massive glaicers cover much of the temprate zones of the earth that reflects lots of heat away. But being that the earths orbit is just a tad too close the sun the tropics heat up very well still an the gulf stream slowly starts up again. thus warming northern europe which over the cource of several hundread years the glaciers slowly retreat an the atmo slowly warms up to what we know as normal weather. and then the cycle begins again.

Now I have never said we dont have any influence but its so small it not worth putting into the equation. This is a debate that many of you know nothing anything about save for what AL has told you. I take science over propaganda any day of the week an so many people have taken all this climate change propaganda hook line an sinker, its sicking too me.

[CorvallisBMW]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The sun is not a constant, sun spots, solar flares, among many other things affect the solar out put on a hour by hour basis.

Exactly. It changes hourly/daily, not at an exponentialy growing rate trending back 100 years.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^

read the rest of my post.

[e30addict007]

Al Gore is a Homo, I roll with no cats and a absurd oil leak.

[2Big4a3Series]

In light of everything said on here and in light of everything that I see about global warming in the media, I have to ask a question- Why is global warming MY problem? Can someone explain that to me?

I mean lets pretend for a moment that everything that Gore is saying is true and humans really are causing the problem. I don't own a chemical plant nor do I manufacture non-eco friendly products. So why am I made out to be a terrible person if I don't jump through all of the cute little eco-green hoops? I never asked for my fast food and beverages to be packaged in non-environmentally safe containers. Nobody seems to mind when a big mack truck shoots plumes of black smoke into the air but I get all kinds of thretening notices in the mail if I don't get my yearly emmissions inspection.

I get sick of hearing about what I shouldn't be buying even though large corporations are allowed to keep making the bad stuff.

[monty]

Good point.

[uofom3]

In light of everything said on here and in light of everything that I see about global warming in the media, I have to ask a question- Why is global warming MY problem? Can someone explain that to me?

I mean lets pretend for a moment that everything that Gore is saying is true and humans really are causing the problem. I don't own a chemical plant nor do I manufacture non-eco friendly products. So why am I made out to be a terrible person if I don't jump through all of the cute little eco-green hoops? I never asked for my fast food and beverages to be packaged in non-environmentally safe containers. Nobody seems to mind when a big mack truck shoots plumes of black smoke into the air but I get all kinds of thretening notices in the mail if I don't get my yearly emmissions inspection.

I get sick of hearing about what I shouldn't be buying even though large corporations are allowed to keep making the bad stuff.

Because you are indirectly part of the problem by consuming just about anything.

The only way you are NOT part of the problem is to live in the forest with no modern anything, basically.

[mrsleeve]

Because you are indirectly part of the problem by consuming just about anything.

The only way you are NOT part of the problem is to live in the forest with no modern anything, basically.

On that note did anyone watch the thing on netgeo, "The Human Foot Print"

I will say its kinda neat idea but the guilt trip it tries to play on you is just outta line along with the its all your fault overtones rub me the wrong way. Through out the entire show the narration an the general gist of it tries to make you feel guilty for 1: being alive 2: being human and 3: living a normal life in a modern society. It just pissed me off to watch it.

[Joey Link]

Because you are indirectly part of the problem by consuming just about anything.

The only way you are NOT part of the problem is to live in the forest with no modern anything, basically.

Nah man, shit in the woods and those greenies would still flip out...

[E30 Wagen]

We Americans are wasteful. You know you can't deny it.

I like to stay pretty neutral so I can observe the facts that presented from both sides...

But, the more arguments that I see coming from the "Anti-Global Warming," crowd, the more suspicious I become that their interpretations of the data they find isn't to debunk global warming but instead are used to defend their comfortable American lifestyle.

Am I wrong?

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

In my case yes you are wrong.


I will gladly change to anything, that is a viable equivalent power source. Most everything that has been brought up as a alternitve is just as bad if not worse, in one way or another. A wolf in sheep's clothing if you will