Global Warming: What do you think? What do you know?

[atomic]

:p

[mrsleeve]

you guys that think turning corn in to fuel is a good idea are not to bright are you. Its happing now, you turn all the corn into fuel, you have lot of trickle down that will fuck us all in the end.

1 lots of farmers swapped out to corn because it was more profitable for them. Who can blame them either farming is hard enough to make a living at. Now you can hardly buy hay at resonable price (last years drought didnt help).

2 Do you like milk, eggs, or meat????? If you turn all the corn into fuel, then the price for animal feed goes up, thus goes up the price of those animal goods.

3 Do you like bread, cereal, cake or most food for that matter???? If you have all these farmers swapping to corn only for fuel then the price for for all products that have corn in them will sky rocket, not to mention the supply of other grains will go down because all the farmers will have swaped to the more profitable fuel crop.

Ask people in New Zeland (if I remember the article I read right) they are using lots of E85 an anything that has to do with corn has sky rockted in price.

Now you will say if demand goes up due to short supply of other grains then some farms will swap back to other crops. This may be true but the whole E85 thing will have drive the cost of food and fuel up from where it is, and thats not good for any of us

[rwh11385]

Now you will say if demand goes up due to short supply of other grains then some farms will swap back to other crops. This may be true but the whole E85 thing will have drive the cost of food and fuel up from where it is, and thats not good for any of us

More people can farm than are currently. Plus, there are better crops to use than corn on more land that is not suitable to corn but for switchgrass, etc.

To assault E85 because of current situation is like hating on planes back in the beginning of the 20th century, or computer when they filled entire rooms. Don't be so close-minded. Thinking that the only way to do things is pump oil from the ground is pretty limited.

[Farbin Kaiber]

More people can farm than are currently.

Well shit Heeter, I guess I'll just go out and buy a farm. What should I start planting? All you are looking at is the bigger picture the e85 pundits are holding in front of your face. You know its gonna die out. And you will be holding a set of nifty e85 keys running regular unleaded.



There is a whole 'nother REAL big picture you are missing.


And for my money, I'd rather trust someone like me with realworld automotive knowledge than some College student with stars in his eyes. Soon you too will be disenchanted.

[mrsleeve]

I never said that e85 was a bad idea in general , but in the way its currently being implemented , it wont work and is not a bright move to continue down this road.

what do you mean more people can farm. I grew up on a farm that we had to sell off in small chunks just to survive. Farming is a multi million dollar investment in equipment alone not to mention huge prices for land. With diesel looking to be 5 bucks a gallon, and framers cant set the price for their goods, they have to accept the going rate good or bad weather it covers the expenses or not. You have to be working a good 1200-1400ac to make a good profit to live on. Why do you think anyone working much less than that have a real job an the wife dose too. Just so they can make it.

Dont tell me about framing, I wish I was still on the farm, I loved it an if I could, I would go back to it in a heart beat.

[Farbin Kaiber]

How many e85 stations do you have in Montana?

[rwh11385]

Well shit Heeter, I guess I'll just go out and buy a farm. What should I start planting? All you are looking at is the bigger picture the e85 pundits are holding in front of your face. You know its gonna die out. And you will be holding a set of nifty e85 keys running regular unleaded.



There is a whole 'nother REAL big picture you are missing.


And for my money, I'd rather trust someone like me with realworld automotive knowledge than some College student with stars in his eyes. Soon you too will be disenchanted.

What big picture are you seeing smoking that Green?

You'd rather have realworld automotive knowledge and be unemployed?

Does weed make you disbelieve the government?

[rwh11385]

Well shit Heeter, I guess I'll just go out and buy a farm. What should I start planting? All you are looking at is the bigger picture the e85 pundits are holding in front of your face. You know its gonna die out. And you will be holding a set of nifty e85 keys running regular unleaded.

[mrsleeve]

2 things 1 how much of that farm land is now subdivisions an the burbs of cities now?????

2 in the 50's you could live on 7k a year,

Can you live on 7k a year now. Shit I eat that up in 5 months just paying the bills.

Like I said above you have to work 1200-1400ac to make a living wage an be able to keep up with you equipment an rising cost of everything. That number will continue to climb.

[rwh11385]

I never said that e85 was a bad idea in general , but in the way its currently being implemented , it wont work and is not a bright move to continue down this road.

so why assume it cannot be better implemented and write it off already?

what do you mean more people can farm. I grew up on a farm that we had to sell off in small chunks just to survive. Farming is a multi million dollar investment in equipment alone not to mention huge prices for land. With diesel looking to 5 bucks a gallon, and framers cant set the price for their goods they have to get a going rate. You have to be working a good 1200ac to make a good profit. Why do you think any working much less than that have a real job an the wife dose too. Just so they can make it.

Dont tell me about framing, I wish I was still on the farm, I loved it an if I could, I would go back to it in a heart beat.

If there is demand, there is land not being used that used to be used that can be re-used if there is desire. Plus, a lot of land that can be used by different plants than corn that use less or no incesticide or fertilizer so lower cost.

I'm not saying single farmers will get back into it, but companies are looking seriously at the future of ethanol and making decisions based on it.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

hey dumb shit if it cost you 12k an acer to buy thats 1.2m per 100ac no farmer can swing that or if it costs you 75k a year to lease 500ac from the city slicker that bought it to hunt phesant on an just sits that wont make you any profits either.

thus why farming is on the down trun

[rwh11385]

in the 50's you could live on 7k a year,

Can you live on 7k a year now. Shit I eat that up in 5 months just paying the bills.

well, that's inflation for you

7k x 1.03 ^ 60 = 41,000 and that avoids a lot of the stagflation era just assuming 3%

besides, just because a household farms does not mean it cannot work off-farm as well... in fact the majority does


Off-farm income/work:
1930
30 percent of farmers worked off farm for an average of 100 days
1945
27 percent of farmers worked off farm
1970
54 percent of households had off-farm income
2002
93 percent of households had off-farm income

[rwh11385]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

hey dumb shit if it cost you 12k an acer to buy thats 1.2m per 100ac no farmer can swing that or if it costs you 75k a year to lease 500ac from the city slicker that bought it to hunt phesant on an just sits that wont make you any profits either.

thus why farming is on the down trun

so you're saying if there is a growing demand for agricultural products, NO ONE will start using ANYMORE LAND? There will be absolutely no one to come in and enter the industry? The ONLY way corn or any other bioenergy crop can be produced is by taking away resources from something else???

That's a strong assumption. (and only feasibly used in the short run)

You might as well run around with your hands over your ears like most and yell ETHANOL IS BADDDDD! EVILL!!! because that's about as much as a lot of people are doing when it comes to the subject.

[Farbin Kaiber]

What big picture are you seeing smoking that Green?

You'd rather have realworld automotive knowledge and be unemployed?

Does weed make you disbelieve the government?

First, I never brought your obvious admitted collegate drinking issues into this discussion. I feel those personal items hold no bearing on the topic at hand.

Yes, because with the knowledge, when a job comes up I am qualified. If I didn't have it I'd be working at McDonalds.

No, people like you do.

[mrsleeve]

Nope not what I was getting at. What I am getting at is that 95% of the farms in this country dont have the financial where with all, to acquire the needed land resources period, let alone still have the ability to work the ground in a manner that would yield a positive net monetary gain.