Global Warming: What do you think? What do you know?

[uofom3]

So there's actually people on this forum who think humans are causing a dramatic change in the environment? The highest ever CO2 levels were around before the first factories went up... All the elements on the earth are exactly the same elements that have been around forever, no matter what state of matter they are in. And why isn't anyone talking about "Global Cooling"?; the direct counter to "Global Warming"? Oh, that's right, no one cares to do any research and instead chooses to believe everything the media says and takes Al Gore word for word. Al Gore's bullshit ethanol alternative fuels have led to more destruction of food crops and more pollution than anyone has ever seen. The amount of corn required to fill 1 SUV up with fuel is enough to feed a person for an entire year. Iowa itself has had to halt production of Soy and Wheat in order to satisfy Corn production. Brazil has taken up Soy production and has in turn had to deforest a huge percentage of their rainforests to make up the deficit. Not to mention the fact that ethanol refineries burn more carbon based fuels than any other form of prodution, but that's ok, right? The Earth goes through climate cycles and shit happens. How is it that there was a minor ice age in medieval Europe? It must have been that they were putting too much carbon into the air from their blacksmithing and castle building. Learn to build a case for yourself and stop believing everything that the liberal, corporate, media wants you to believe. They make more money off your ignorance than you could ever wish to spend on "green energy".

+1

I think it's pretty priceless that most "alternative energy" ends up costing more energy to produce, or doesn't work as well.

Also - I've given several personal examples at the micro level for my area regarding alternative energy that I support - and I by no means buy into this global warming hoax.

So, my question for the lefties out there is why aren't you jumping on my bandwagon and saying for instance "YEAH! You SHOULD have hydro power! That makes so much sense!"? Instead, no response and more "damn the man" rhetoric.

Also - what's the solution then? You want electric cars? Ok, so what about the power to power them? You want ethanol? What about how it doesn't work well in older motors and costs a shit load to produce? Biodiesel? Financially unviable for a lot of people, and won't work in colder climates because it solidifies in gas tanks and clogs fuel lines. THEN there are alternatives that I support like Hydro power (but it kills teh fish!), wind power (but they ruin the "natural landscape!" oes noes!), Wave power (most people don't even know wtf that is), or even -gasp - take another stab at nuclear power.

I see a whole lot of canned responses and fury comming from people who support this global warming initiative, but nothing that seems to be agreed upon to solve the problems - and the absolute last thing that needs to happen is to have more government regulation of your and my life by imposing taxes/bans/etc.

[Maluco]

here's another way for you guys to continue supporting "Global Warming"... Introducing the "Global Warming Tax"

"To fight global warming, a bill in Sacramento would enable Los Angeles County transit officials to increase taxes on motorists."

"Billed as a "climate change mitigation and adaptation fee," the measure would cost motorists either an additional 3 percent motor fuel tax, or up to a $90 annual flat fee, based on vehicle emissions. The new charges would be on top of taxes already paid at the pump."

Los Angeles considers global warming tax

http://www.desertdispatch.com/opinion/global_3006___article.html/warming_tax.html

[joshh]

I want to know where all the people who don't buy into global warming are getting their information. There is a widespread consensus amongst the established scientific community that greenhouse gas emissions from humans are one of the main contributors to the temperature increases we are experiencing.

Search google scholar or any university library for "global warming" or "climate change" and tell me what the people who have dedicated their lives to studying earth's atmosphere have to say.

I doubt that few, if any of us (including myself) on this website are educated enough to understand this issue and offer a fair opinion on it. My opinion is that people need to shut up and read what them-thar smart people (not the media, not al gore, not random conspiracy websites) have to say before they open their uneducated mouthes.

Because scientists are never wrong. We teach things in school that we want people to think. I wish it were as neutral as you seem to think it is.
Now add the fact that scientists careers are/have been in jeopardy if they don't believe in GW. Adding more to the idea it's a religion.

[DocG]

Now think of how those electric cars get the power to charge their batteries. Pretty much back to square one.

No, we're not back to square 1. Electric motors robust enough to run cars are relatively new. Also development of battery packs which can handle long range are too. Yes fossil fuel is burnt to produce the electricity used to charge the cars, but one must remember that the efficiency of a car motor is only around 30% at max. The rest of the energy is lost as heat.
Electric motors are extremely efficient, with very little wasted energy, hence overall it is much better than mechanical engines.

Also remember that alternate power sources like Nuclear energy, solar energy etc. are becoming safer, cheaper and more desirable.

BOTTOM LINE IS, THE WORLD ISN'T GOING TO END, WE ARE.

Right global warming will not result in the end of the world, but will simply make it uninhabitable by us. We will in essence go extinct at some point. Preventing Global Warming might buy us a few more centuries...;)

I think it's pretty priceless that most "alternative energy" ends up costing more energy to produce, or doesn't work as well.

So, my question for the lefties out there is why aren't you jumping on my bandwagon and saying for instance "YEAH! You SHOULD have hydro power! That makes so much sense!"? Instead, no response and more "damn the man" rhetoric.

Well first off instead of going alternative, why not conserve? If I remember correctly, the United States comprises around 48% of the world's total yearly natural resource usage. That's 1 country!!! well I'm not flaming America, it is the most industrialised nation in the world, it makes almost half the world's GDP as well, so it is partly justified, but if all the soccer moms and SUV users would just go Prius or Electric, there would be a huge difference...SUVs are thought to be safe but come with extreme body roll, and gigantic blind spots. And big block V8s and high displacement is not everything!!!

[DarkWing6]

if all the soccer moms and SUV users would just go Prius or Electric, there would be a huge difference...SUVs are thought to be safe but come with extreme body roll, and gigantic blind spots. And big block V8s and high displacement is not everything!!!

I would say that most people other than the soccer moms think SUVs are a complete waste of gas milage. I understand some people having larger ones when they have a big family or a boat/RV/trailer to pull, but a majority of them are waste. However, your idea is about as realistic as saying "if we all dont buy gas on july 13th we can stick it to the gas man and he will lose $12.45mil causing him to lower prices". You are dealing with people that care about their ego, safety, and convenience. Unfortunately the Prius (which many argue does more damage to produce 1 than driving a muscle car for like 40 years or something) and electric cars are not overly practical yet. They are small and great for commuting, but they are not something that a woman with 3 kids and all their friends can manage. I am a big advocate for wagons and the Honda Odessey, but there is a place for SUVs at this point and telling people to simply stop driving them isn't going to work. Let's try a realistic solution.

[delfin]

Ok this is bullshit. Go try to "stop" a real problem like plate tectonics. I'd hate to live a few centuries from now when people are blaming humans when the tectonic plates are all about to slam back into each other or they open up a huge hole in the earth from where the world fills with lava. That'll be some REAL global warming.

[delfin]

I would say that most people other than the soccer moms think SUVs are a complete waste of gas milage. I understand some people having larger ones when they have a big family or a boat/RV/trailer to pull, but a majority of them are waste. However, your idea is about as realistic as saying "if we all dont buy gas on july 13th we can stick it to the gas man and he will lose $12.45mil causing him to lower prices". You are dealing with people that care about their ego, safety, and convenience. Unfortunately the Prius (which many argue does more damage to produce 1 than driving a muscle car for like 40 years or something) and electric cars are not overly practical yet. They are small and great for commuting, but they are not something that a woman with 3 kids and all their friends can manage. I am a big advocate for wagons and the Honda Odessey, but there is a place for SUVs at this point and telling people to simply stop driving them isn't going to work. Let's try a realistic solution.

Anyways, with the not buying gas thing, people need to realize that OPEC is a CARTEL. You CANNOT make one company lower its prices because they are all part of the same organization. They have a monopoly on the fuel industry much like the Motion Picture Patents Company had in he early 1900's. The only way to make them drive down their prices would be to trust bust their cartel or somehow manage to start a new form of competition to them. And I seriously doubt that will ever happen. The ignorance in the world is killing me.

[Sean]

My old roommate in CA came home with a Prius one day. What a pile....I seriously think a smug cloud started to form around the house....LOL (she really went off on how she got such great gas milage and that everyone should get one)

[joshh]

No, we're not back to square 1. Electric motors robust enough to run cars are relatively new. Also development of battery packs which can handle long range are too. Yes fossil fuel is burnt to produce the electricity used to charge the cars, but one must remember that the efficiency of a car motor is only around 30% at max. The rest of the energy is lost as heat.
Electric motors are extremely efficient, with very little wasted energy, hence overall it is much better than mechanical engines.

Also remember that alternate power sources like Nuclear energy, solar energy etc. are becoming safer, cheaper and more desirable.

Electric motors are not the answer. We still have to mine to get the minerals to make batteries and then we still have to destroy those same batteries. Let alone use oil to charge them. You said it yourself.
The fact is, we are forced to use some form of pollution/destruction to get the power we need.
I'm not about to spend an extra $10,000.00 just to "save" money on gas and "save" the enviroment. That's why Honda made the 89-91 Civic hatchback.

$25,000 for a Prius.
$15,000 for a base Honda Civic.

$10,000 difference.
Gas as is $3.50 per gallon.
That's 2857.14 gallons of gas you can pay for before the Civic evens out the price of the Prius.
Lets say you drive a lot and use 20 gallons a week.
142.8 weeks of gas (20 gallons a week) the Civic uses before it costs as much as the Prius.
That's almost three years of 20 gallons a week.
No the Prius is not cost effective!

[joshh]

My old roommate in CA came home with a Prius one day. What a pile....I seriously think a smug cloud started to form around the house....LOL (she really went off on how she got such great gas milage and that everyone should get one)

Now remind her how much more she paid for the POS over a much much cheaper economy car.

[uofom3]

Electric motors are not the answer. We still have to mine to get the minerals to make batteries and then we still have to destroy those same batteries. Let alone use oil to charge them. You said it yourself.
The fact is, we are forced to use some form of pollution/destruction to get the power we need.
I'm not about to spend an extra $10,000.00 just to "save" money on gas and "save" the enviroment. That's why Honda made the 89-91 Civic hatchback.

$25,000 for a Prius.
$15,000 for a base Honda Civic.

$10,000 difference.
Gas as is $3.50 per gallon.
That's 2857.14 gallons of gas you can pay for before the Civic evens out the price of the Prius.
Lets say you drive a lot and use 20 gallons a week.
142.8 weeks of gas (20 gallons a week) the Civic uses before it costs as much as the Prius.
That's almost three years of 20 gallons a week.
No the Prius is not cost effective!

You are 100% correct - excellent post. I made a very similar point earlier in the thread.

[Maluco]

You are 100% correct - excellent post. I made a very similar point earlier in the thread.

Indeed, it's an arguement we can all for sure participate in... While I'll agree with those who say we as individuals cannot make valid statements based on our insight and knowledge, WTF? There is no way in hell this is a matter of fact! Someone brought up something earlier along the lines of scientists aren't ever wrong? Of course they are (not to even go into their pockets) Furthermore, it seems alot of people here are very blind in their postings. Do we on the other side come across as bold and maybe even ignorant? Of course! Only because of the blindness of those who are so pro-side. I'm not even arguing the natural side of things, only the "car", "Gore", "tax" side of it all.. Most seem to be missing that...

[rwh11385]

So joshh, you'd rather use otherwise wasted energy with a turbo than regenerative brakes and electric motors?

Why can't the US have more turbo diesels and especially turbo E85 cars off the lot?

[Maluco]

You are 100% correct - excellent post. I made a very similar point earlier in the thread.

Indeed, it's an arguement we can all for sure participate in... While I'll agree with those who say we as individuals cannot make the greatest educated statements but with all of our research and referencs, WTF? There is no way in hell this is a matter of fact! Someone brought up something earlier along the lines of scientists aren't ever wrong? Of course they are (not to even go into their pockets) Furthermore, it seems alot of people here are very blind in their postings. Do we on the other side come across as bold and maybe even ignorant? Of course! Only because of the blindness of those who are so pro-side. I'm not even arguing the natural side of things, only the "car", "Gore", "tax" side of it all.. Most seem to be missing that...

[uofom3]

So joshh, you'd rather use otherwise wasted energy with a turbo than regenerative brakes and electric motors?

Why can't the US have more turbo diesels and especially turbo E85 cars off the lot?

I'm curious about your response regarding the high cost of e85 and the possible long-term problems with sustaining production of it as a primary fuel source - given that you brought it up. I have a hard time seeing you as being a huge proponent of e85 at any level besides being a good "idea".