PGE and wind energy...

[joshh]

Dude, it isn't all about money. Some people don't mind paying more if they know they are using clean energy.

Understandable, but that's why they have been shucked into thinking they are actually doing something good. Thus the whole "carbon credits" thing.
I don't believe the consumer should be the ones to pay for corporations to clean up.
Individuals doing things in their immediate area to keep "clean" is plenty. Yet so many folks actually give these huge corporations their money. So they can then profit on it.
Don't try to tell me PGE is losing money on this...

[Farbin Kaiber]

I am, however getting sick and tired of people bitching about their "carbon footprint". And saving napkins to reduce it.

[blunttech]

I am, however getting sick and tired of people bitching about their "carbon footprint". And saving napkins to reduce it.

i try to do my part on this. whenever im at a friends house and have to shit i wipe my ass on the shower curtain in effect saving tissue

[atomic]

I am, however getting sick and tired of people bitching about their "carbon footprint". And saving napkins to reduce it.

Biggest carbon footprint contributors probably eat a lot of Tofu too. The off gases from one person eating that shit has to produce more methane gas, than a normal household a 4 can produce eating red meats 4 days a week...

[KenC]

Link and/or location of primary source study?

Biggest carbon footprint contributors probably eat a lot of Tofu too. The off gases from one person eating that shit has to produce more methane gas, than a normal household a 4 can produce eating red meats 4 days a week...

[Turf1600]

FYI I pay less for "Green" energy that most of the other providers in my area.

[nando]

Understandable, but that's why they have been shucked into thinking they are actually doing something good. Thus the whole "carbon credits" thing.
I don't believe the consumer should be the ones to pay for corporations to clean up.
Individuals doing things in their immediate area to keep "clean" is plenty. Yet so many folks actually give these huge corporations their money. So they can then profit on it.
Don't try to tell me PGE is losing money on this...

carbon credits DO work - they basically assign a real monetary cost to pollution. If you can think of a better way to do that, I'm sure business & governments would love to hear about it.

[joshh]

carbon credits DO work - they basically assign a real monetary cost to pollution. If you can think of a better way to do that, I'm sure business & governments would love to hear about it.

Think of a "better" way. Do you honestly believe they are doing that solely for the environment?
Do you know that Al Gore owns stock in one of the companies that take peoples money for their "carbon credits"? But in reality, all you're doing is giving a company money and HOPING they are doing what they say.
How could it be any "better" than that? Suckered!

Carbon credits don't work. It's a fucking joke. It justifies shitting on your environment.
And it's based on how much money you have. Interesting...if I want to throw an oil soaked rag into a river, how much will that cost me exactly??
Planting 100 trees does not remove that rag from that river. Sorry, it doesn't work.

[Jon325i]

Biggest carbon footprint contributors probably eat a lot of Tofu too. The off gases from one person eating that shit has to produce more methane gas, than a normal household a 4 can produce eating red meats 4 days a week...

Someone needs to implement a "personal methane reclamation and re-use" study to test this theory :-P

Jon

[Farbin Kaiber]

Someone needs to implement a "personal methane reclamation and re-use" study to test this theory :-P

Jon

Maybe the engineering student that supports e85 could invent it. I hear he is full of shit.

[joshh]

Someone needs to implement a "personal methane reclamation and re-use" study to test this theory :-P

Jon

Time to get on that ass vacuum I've been thinking of building.

[nando]

Think of a "better" way. Do you honestly believe they are doing that solely for the environment?
Do you know that Al Gore owns stock in one of the companies that take peoples money for their "carbon credits"? But in reality, all you're doing is giving a company money and HOPING they are doing what they say.
How could it be any "better" than that? Suckered!

Carbon credits don't work. It's a fucking joke. It justifies shitting on your environment.
And it's based on how much money you have. Interesting...if I want to throw an oil soaked rag into a river, how much will that cost me exactly??
Planting 100 trees does not remove that rag from that river. Sorry, it doesn't work.

No, because it costs MONEY to pollute. If a company can cut costs, they will do it - if one company can afford to cut pollution, they will do so so they can cut out the cost of the credits or resell them to another company that maybe can't afford to do so.

The result is an overall decrease in pollution, as long as there is a limited supply of credits (which is generally controlled by the government - if they want less pollution, the decrease the supply of credits, which increases the cost of pollution.. you see where I'm going here).

You know the Kyoto treaty? almost the entire basis of it is carbon credits. and it was our idea. Or do you think all the nations that signed up for the Kyoto treaty are idiots?

it's ok, one day you will grow up and realize how far out in left field your idealisms are. And there will still be a carbon trading market despite what you think of it, and it will likely be much bigger than it is now.

[joshh]

No, because it costs MONEY to pollute. If a company can cut costs, they will do it - if one company can afford to cut pollution, they will do so so they can cut out the cost of the credits or resell them to another company that maybe can't afford to do so.

The result is an overall decrease in pollution, as long as there is a limited supply of credits (which is generally controlled by the government - if they want less pollution, the decrease the supply of credits, which increases the cost of pollution.. you see where I'm going here).

You know the Kyoto treaty? almost the entire basis of it is carbon credits. and it was our idea. Or do you think all the nations that signed up for the Kyoto treaty are idiots?

it's ok, one day you will grow up and realize how far out in left field your idealisms are. And there will still be a carbon trading market despite what you think of it, and it will likely be much bigger than it is now.

Just the fact you think the Kyoto treaty is working shows you aren't keeping up. And yes they are idiots because it's not working. Do you really need a link for this?

Money doesn't clean up the environment. Action does and only action on a specific line works I.E. actually picking the oil soaked rag out of the river. Not paying a company to plant a few trees. No matter how much you want it to be, it's not one for one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/05/bu.../05online.html
From the NY times...liberal crap as they come.

http://risingtide.org.uk/resources/factsheets/carbontrading

Head out of the sand please!

[nando]

you are going to believe what you want to believe regardless of what anyone says. I asked you to propose an alternative to carbon trading - but I don't think picking rags off the ground is going to do anything to curb carbon emissions.

[BenM]

it's ok, one day you will grow up and realize how far out in right field your idealisms are. And there will still be a carbon trading market despite what you think of it, and it will likely be much bigger than it is now.

Fixed.