27 years biatch

[regnu]

Good mother of Michal Jackson!! This is still going on?.?.?.

and

Good job Steve.

[parkerbink]

You have it all wrong and refuse to hear anything but what you have decided based solely on what you chose to read.

It is not a program that comes from AA, it is the alcoholic's disposition. If as you say your Sister can drink moderately she is not an alcoholic.

I hope you never know anyone that really needs help because you will be in a world of shit.

I am done. I hope you live long enough to grow up.

[rwh11385]

Yes I am serious. I think that telling people "they have a disease and there is no possible way they can recover" not does not help society as a whole. I think we can be aided greater by understanding the science and intervening before dependence takes place without instantly labeling problem drinkers as absolutely incurable alcoholics. It's more much reasonable for a person to comprehend the dangers of repeated abuse and a negative cycle if they don't believe that poor choices = a disease. Try telling anyone that they should consider toning down drinking or try telling them they have an disease that cannot be overcome, and see what has a better response!

AA has a strong belief component, I don't think you will disagree. Now what good is telling someone in the mid-ground that they have no control and will become sick / die if they drink at all, instead of learning to make better choices? Self-fulfilling prophecy if they do believe and they do drink - they will meet your expectation if they buy into the disease concept. How many "bad stories" did people in your group have when they slip up? Did hearing them re-enforce what you were told about yourself and alcohol?

I've seen one of my sisters is bad shape in HS - drinking shots before school and during the day and passing out drunk just to be happy and get by. But she's broke the cycle and got back to where she didn't go back to it and is a happy and healthy college student now who can moderately enjoy alcohol but doesn't need it to live her life.

If she was programmed to think whenever that beer would hit her lips she would lose all control and her brain/body would force her to want more and more until she passed out and awoke to find more to start it again... well, she could be dead now because of it.

[TwoJ's]

"The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him."

And

[parkerbink]

Robert, really? are you serious?

First AA does not keep stats, hard to do when you keep no records.

Second, people forced to do anything are less likely to do well.

Third, many who really want to quit fail to get sober the first several times they try. - Many die before they get another chance

I went to my first meeting in 1982 & had my last drink in 1994. In between I tried many times on my own and went to several "institutional" programs with varying degrees of rigidity.

When I was so sick of myself I couldn't stand it I became willing to stop being a bigger smart ass and know it all than you are and I became teachable and got "it"

I am being very serious when I say you show many of the signs of the type of personality prone to alcoholism. I hope you are not as I would not wish this on my worst enemy.

Stop for one second, ask yourself why you are so belligerently trying to tear AA down and then decide if it's because you are an ass or that you see something in yourself that might be like alcoholics.

[Turf1600]

Blunt - I'm coming to your birthday party.

[TwoJ's]

"The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him."

[Farbin Kaiber]

yes we need a pivot boy. please bring your own bukkake bowl

I'll bring teh one you left under the couch last time. I told you to keep whatever was left over. I guess you forgot. It happens after that much of an adventure in gaping.

[Mr.SWISS]

im actually 52 but can easily pass for 51. my birthday is in sept. would you like to come to my party?

Being an e30 sellout and having poked fun at you I doubt I would have a warm welcoming.

Just bustin your ballz anyway, I'm no yute myself.

[blunttech]

Can I come?

yes we need a pivot boy. please bring your own bukkake bowl

[Farbin Kaiber]

im actually 52 but can easily pass for 51. my birthday is in sept. would you like to come to my party?

Can I come?

[blunttech]

Yer 53?

im actually 52 but can easily pass for 51. my birthday is in sept. would you like to come to my party?

[blunttech]

hahahaha trey parker, matt stone and the daily show hahahahahahaha

[Mr.SWISS]

Yer 53?

[rwh11385]

Whether it takes internal self determination, becoming a "sheep" at an AA meeting, or by being forced into a locked down court ordered 18 month treament program, if that heroin addict can stop using and stay that way and not end up dead in a gutter, it doesn't matter how he got there.

You fail to read that any study found talking about the success [or lack of] for AA shows that no treatment is better than sending people to AA. Sure, it works for some but so does Catholicism. For those who it does not work for, then they are told they have a disease, that there is no recovery, and that they will die. Having courts or prisoners force people to do AA rather than alternatives is wrong since it has a strong tie with religion.

Table 3. Most and Least Effective Alcoholism Treatments
Good:

Highest Rated
Brief interventions +239
Social skills training +128
Motivation enhancement +87
Community reinforcement +80
Behavioral contracting +73

Bad:

Lowest Rated
Confrontational counseling - 125
General alcohol counseling - 214
Alcoholism education programs - 239

Just because a small % of people stick to a program (or leave because it doesn't) does not mean the program is effective for all. That 'reasoning' is poor and circular.

As for drugs like cocaine, the chemical/physical dependence is a lot different, so the help is going to be on another level. Weed has no proven physical dependence but there is behavioral or emotional connections that could be an issue with drinking as well. Treating everything the same because it's an addiction or dependence is silly, so don't group them all under the same umbrella. Alcohol releases dopamine in the brain, same as food or sex... whereas things like coke block reuptake so the after effects are much different - instead of missing that "extra" level and drinking to recover, post-use cocaine users are below normal and in a pit instead. A 12-step may be good for drugs but don't throw AA in the preferred category because for the most part it shouldn't be considered as such.

That doesn't stop people from believing it is the one and only option, and that everyone should be pushed towards it regardless of the actual situation. The cult-like persuasion is what annoys people and why it's good to have some people who are frank about societal issues like Matt Stone and Trey Parker able to have a voice and to reach people, even if sometimes they are not valued. However, commentary that is alternative to the typical mainstream ideas like The Daily Show are gaining influence so maybe the country will be less sheeplike and be more open to ideas and less focused on protecting their way of thought absolutely.