Isreal bomb Gaza, killing 195

[Yakinho]

Oh I'm sorry I misunderstood. It was rogue rabbis who hijacked the planes on 9/11. I stand corrected.
Hamas is a peaceful organization like the Salvation Army. On weekends they help the girl scouts sell cookies. Hamas said they opposed 9/11. Those people in Palestine shooting and cheering in the streets on 9/11 were happy because they won the Gaza Power Ball lottery.

3,000 Americans butchered on 9/11 but you think it's not relevant. Not relevant. Thanks. That says it all, really.

I don't think it's relevant because it isn't relevant. By your logic, 20% of the world hates America and celebrates anything bad that happens to it. And really man, lets go by your logic and say that everyone in Palestine hates America, and it's ideals, and it's freedoms, and whatever other brainwashed shit you've said... Why would they care? Most people in Palestine have seen loved ones, and innocent people die in front of them. Shot, blown to bits, whatever. Why are 3000 people that have had the pleasure of living a better life, who are safe from war and don't have to worry about dying everyday going to have an effect on them? 9/11 has jack shit to do with this.

[tofubento]

Go do some research with an unbiased mind. If tofu and the gang can do so. Watch a documentary called "Death in Gaza," it shows why some of your Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists/freedom fighters turn out the way they do. It even has people get blown up like vedubin likes to see, I recommend it. But in seriousness, if you can't find it and you'd like me to upload it, let me know.

Oddly enough, when I first started doing research and reading about Israel/Palestine was after I first saw the movie "LAWARENCE OF ARABIA".

The I.P debate is a rather odd one. After ww1 when the land was being split up for the different tribes, again as in Africa,nothing was divided along thousands of year old tribal territories. But , the now Palestine, that section of land was not wanted by anyone, at the time it was a barren desert. ( not 100% dead but you get the idea ) It didnt have much of a population at all, if any. Even when Mark Twain visited the land he wrote the following : "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." After several locusts plagues and over 40,000 people dieing due to it, the land was abandoned. In 1922, the ZIONIST movement started funnelling money into a devoid landscape for repopulation and growth. During that time, both Arabs and Jews started to return and repopulate the area. Another thing to remember is that the British promised the land to both Arabs and Jews when fighting the Turks during WW1. Due to the Zionist movement Jews had been funneling into that land from about 1897!!! The 1947-48 Israeli-Arab war, ended in a very lopsided defeat for the Arabs, since they lost, they also lost land. During that time both sides, Arab and Israeli, used terrorist acts to help further the comabt. Now you fast forward to modern times...Israel has a giant wall blocking it off from Palestine, and armed check points scattered across it. This was done to stop the suicide bombers, as well as other attacks that had been occuring. Yet, even with the wall, commerce and travel still happened. People moved between the cities freely, Palestinians where hired on for companies. The only time animosity really happened was when attacks began.

You have to understand this about Israel, since its creation the country has been under attack, be it Palestine or when Egypt attacked them. Once the Israelies got ahold of the land they nurtured it into something and other countries wanted it! From the begining Israel had tried a peacefull way of dealing with Palestine and like advisaries, it did not work. So, the Israelis, adopted a more OFFENSIVE attitude to counter the attacks it faced on a daily basis. Oddly enough, this more aggresive stance, worked! Attacks lessened , and soon Palestine started coming to the table to talk. Dont forget during alot of the treaties Israel gave back land it had conquered.

The Palestinians as a whole are not that bad of a people, its the religious nut jobs that are really destroying that country. There are literal gangs of muslim fanatics running around Palestine, they press people into be suicide bombers or fighters for them...very similiar methods as of Africa...if you do X we wont kill your family...that style. I do feel sorry for the Palestinians that have to deal with that. Yet , the people of Palestine ELECTED Hamas!!!

Heres a little bit of history about Hamas :

amas was formed about February 1988 to allow participation of the brotherhood in the first Intifada. The founding leaders of Hamas were: Ahmad Yassin, ‘Abd al-Fattah Dukhan, Muhammed Shama’, Ibrahim al-Yazuri, Issa al-Najjar, Salah Shehadeh (from Bayt Hanun) and ‘Abd al-Aziz Rantisi. Dr. Mahmud Zahar is also usually listed as one of the original leader. Other leaders include: Sheikh Khalil Qawqa, Isa al-Ashar, Musa Abu Marzuq, Ibrahim Ghusha, Khalid Mish’al.

The August 1988 Charter declared that all Palestine is Islamic trust land, can never be surrendered to non-Muslims and is an integral part of Muslim world. It cites the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion as legitimate documents, declares that negotiations and international conferences are a waste of time, and blames 'Zionists' for the French and Russian revolutions.

Hamas was created as three separate wings. The political wing, staffed by Yassin's closest allies (Shanab, Yazuri, Rantisi, Zahhar) produced leaflets, raised funds especially in Gulf, recruited members and coopted mosques. The intelligence apparatus, known as al-Majd (glory), under Yihyah Sanwar and Ruhi Mushtaha, was created for internal policing, especially of Gaza (eg killing collaborators). It later merged with the military wing, ‘Izz al-Din al-Qassam brigades, which began as the smallest wing. Hamas operated through a cell system, and was therefore hard for Israeli agents to penetrated. Israel barely interfered with its activities initially, continuing to see it as a social reformist organization and thus promoting it as a viable partner in discussions in order to marginalize the PLO, resulting in frequent meetings between Hamas figures (including Yassin) and Israeli government officials such as a reported Zahar-Rabin meeting. This tacit cooperation ended with the kidnapping and killing of Israeli soldiers Sasportas and Sa'don. Hamas was banned and Ahmed Yassin and others were arrested. Hamas shunned the Oslo peace process and joined the wider rejectionist alliance which managed to gain considerable support (over 20% of Palestinians support Hamas and Islamic Jihad despite PNA pressure). The first Hamas suicide bombing in opposition to the Oslo accords was conducted in 1993. During the second Intifada, Hamas became active both politically and militarily. It joined with the Fatah Al-Aqsa brigades in several suicide attacks, and also began plotting to usurp leadership of the Palestine Authority from the PLO. Popularity soared as polls showed combined Hamas/Islamic Jihad support exceeding 30 percent. Hamas was blacklisted as a terrorist group by the United Sates and eventually by the EU as well, and Saudi Arabia began withholding support from Hamas. Shi'ite Iran apparently had become the financial mainstay of the Hamas, which also received moral support from the Iranian supported Hizbollah. Egyptian sponsored talks during the tenure of PNA Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas failed to produce agreement on a cease-fire with Israel, but the PLO nevertheless failed to move against Hamas, and announced that it would not do so.In practical terms, Hamas spokespersons provide a consistent line. In separate interviews on Al-Jazeera TV and ANB TV, Hamas spokesmen Khaled Masha'al and Osama Hamdan make it perfectly clear that they are dead set on the eradication of Israel.Of course, everyone should keep in mind that at the Khartoum conference in 1968, the Arab states set forth the famous three "nos" - no to negotiations, no to recognition of Israel, and no to peace.

IF you want to read all of it please click here

The above is sections taken from an article on an arab site about HAMAS's history...the parts I did not take where concerning bits that did not deal with the politics or goal of Hamas...IE who was in charge who did this, who blew this up ect. I just wanted to get the information out about the History.

Now, remember the withdraw that Israel did in 2005? When the Israeli's pulled out of Gaza they left fully functioning warehouses, factories, greenhouses, hotels, and shops for the Palestinians in hopes that they would be able to use those products to further their country. So that eventually the two countries could prosper. Sadly this did not happen, instead the items left behind where vandalised and or destroyed. Since 2005, roughly 6,300 rockets/mortars had been launched randomly into Israel. In the past few weeks over 600 rockets had been launched in to Israel!! Thats nearly 1,725 attacks a year!!!

In January 2006, Hamas won a majority of seats in Palestinian elections and took its place in government alongside Abbas. Israel and the international community,announced they would negotiate with Hamas if it met three preconditions.
Hamas was required to renounce violence, accept Israel's right to exist and agree to be bound by agreements previously signed by the Palestinian Authority. These are simple terms for any party even remotely interested in peace, but Hamas refused and was consequently excluded from talks.

Remember, Hamas did not recognize Israel as a country!

[tofubento]

After the kidnapping and killing of 2 of the 3 Israeli soldiers, 1 still held captive. In 2007, Hamas launched a coupe, a very violent one at that! Hamas took opposite parties and did things such as dropping them off of tall buildings. During this coupe, they took control of Gaza away from Fatah.
Israel in response to this initiated a blockade, even with the blockade they still treated the sick and injured Palestine residents at its hospitols.This led to the bizarre situation where Palestinian patients at Israeli hospitals had to be moved to the basement to protect them from Palestinian rockets!

Hamas used the blockade to their advantage, propganda. Hamas stated that there was not enough food,water, fuel ect for the people to live off of. When infact Israel was still supplying the people of Gaza with needed items...if they did not international companies would have been dropping Aid to them!! But it never happened, Israel was there helping them, though at the same time as helping assit an enemy they where being condemed for not supplying enough!!

Israel blames the continued rocket/mortar attacks as the reason for the attacks now. Israel is trying to only attack Hamas military structures, which sadly Hamas has placed either in civillian areas. Such as under/in/on/around hospitols, schools, and apartments. Due to this, there are and will be civillian deaths.

Since Hamas took control in 2005, it has been nothing but a downward spiral of violence. They, Hamas, refuses to have any sort of peace process , if and when a ceasefire is agreed upon, Hamas is the first to break it with rocket/mortar attacks against Israeli Civillians.

***found an updated Mortar attacks agaisnt Israel :Mortar bomb hits since April 2001: 3,948***

List of Attacks on Israel

Hamas has been indescriminatly attacking Israel since they came into power.
Granted the deaths of Israeli citizens hasnt been nearly as high as Palestinians. Regardless of the deaths, Palestine is attacking another country with out cause with out justification.Sorry, but if you poke the bear long enough he will wake up.

So, please explain to me, how I need to do more research? How I need to be unbiased when the facts are there...please explain that too me.

[tofubento]

I don't think it's relevant because it isn't relevant. By your logic, 20% of the world hates America and celebrates anything bad that happens to it. And really man, lets go by your logic and say that everyone in Palestine hates America, and it's ideals, and it's freedoms, and whatever other brainwashed shit you've said... Why would they care? Most people in Palestine have seen loved ones, and innocent people die in front of them. Shot, blown to bits, whatever. Why are 3000 people that have had the pleasure of living a better life, who are safe from war and don't have to worry about dying everyday going to have an effect on them? 9/11 has jack shit to do with this.

I wouldnt say 20% hate America but alot of people certainly dont like us.

Please explain how the 3000 that died where living better lives and or safe from war? Do you have proof that they lived better then Palestinians? Do you have proof they where safe from war? ohh thats right you dont, thats largely due to the large airplane that struck the buildings and killed them all. Slight Flas in your logic.

9/11 has everything to do with this...Hamas is funded by Iran, and Iran helped fund the cell that used the planes to destory the Towers. Hamas also believes that the US should be wiped clean due to its beliefs...you know different ones. Hamas is a terrorist organization through and through, you can not argue this....see my 2 rather long posts above....

Now even with the facts that Ive presented you will still keep going on about how sad and horrid it is that Israel stand up for its self and stop the senseless attacks...but you know what I posted up what I wanted and showed cold hard facts. If you still wish to believe Israel is in the wrong, well your a full on libtard. Sorry I let this degrade in such a manner but I am tired of being senseable with people such as yourself. So I placed the conversation in a manner that you can understand :

You

Are

A

Fucking

Idiot.

I am done with this thread.

[Massive Lee]

"Therefore shut the fuck off"? Where did you learn how to speak English? An Al Quiada training camp? Are you writing from Camp Gitmo? Truly your hatred of America and Israel has blinded you, my Palestinian friend.

Thanks for answering the questions:

Massive Lee believes George Bush is a terrorist. Massive Lee believes America is a state sponsor of terrorism, particularly in Iraq.

Wow. You are either quite drunk, or damn stupid - My guess is that you are both. I even wonder how you can even read the keys on your computer. BTW, please enlighten me where you read the above statement about me thinking Bush is a terrorist.

Or are you keeping on inventing "true" facts?

BTW What was your latest e30 contribution to this forum?

[Charlie]

Wow. You are either quite drunk, or damn stupid

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

Really Lee, glass houses dude.

-Charlie

[CorvallisBMW]

"Therefore shut the fuck off"? Where did you learn how to speak English? An Al Quiada training camp? Are you writing from Camp Gitmo? Truly your hatred of America and Israel has blinded you, my Palestinian friend.

Thanks for answering the questions:

Massive Lee believes George Bush is a terrorist. Massive Lee believes America is a state sponsor of terrorism, particularly in Iraq.

Anyone reading anything Massive Lee says on this subject from here on out needs to weigh these factors carefully.

I love it! Typical conservative crap. Someone disagrees with you, so you call them a terrorist, and Muslim, a Palestinian, or whatever the fuck you feel like. Because surely, anyone who disagrees with your enlightened and superior opinion must me a prisoner at Gitmo, a terrorist sympathizer, or hate America.

Oh I'm sorry I misunderstood. It was rogue rabbis who hijacked the planes on 9/11. I stand corrected.
Hamas is a peaceful organization like the Salvation Army. On weekends they help the girl scouts sell cookies. Hamas said they opposed 9/11. Those people in Palestine shooting and cheering in the streets on 9/11 were happy because they won the Gaza Power Ball lottery.

3,000 Americans butchered on 9/11 but you think it's not relevant. Not relevant. Thanks. That says it all, really.

The hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and other Middle East countries, not Palestine. Hamas and Gaza have absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. Why do you say that they do? It's an out-and-out lie and you know it. Simply because they are Muslims, and the hijackers are Muslim, you assume that they are responsible in 9/11? Are all of the world's 1 billion-plus Muslims responsible in 9/11 then?

"Massive Lee believes George Bush is a terrorist. Massive Lee believes America is a state sponsor of terrorism, particularly in Iraq.

Since you love putting words in poeples mouths, I shall now do the same:

Chisum believes that all Muslims hate America, are terrorists, and are responbile for 9/11.

[Yakinho]

I wouldnt say 20% hate America but alot of people certainly dont like us.

Please explain how the 3000 that died where living better lives and or safe from war? Do you have proof that they lived better then Palestinians? Do you have proof they where safe from war? ohh thats right you dont, thats largely due to the large airplane that struck the buildings and killed them all. Slight Flas in your logic.

Sorry, I'm not as good at blindly judging as you are, but i'll just go on a whim here and say that people living and working in new york and DC are a little more fortunate and safe than those living and working in Gaza. Just a guess there...

9/11 has everything to do with this...Hamas is funded by Iran, and Iran helped fund the cell that used the planes to destory the Towers. Hamas also believes that the US should be wiped clean due to its beliefs...you know different ones. Hamas is a terrorist organization through and through, you can not argue this....see my 2 rather long posts above....

There is no direct connection, but thanks for telling me the indirect connection which was probably already made clear in your 35 pages of copying and pasting. And where did I argue that Hamas is not a terrorist organization? You know the old saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." It's still true.

Now even with the facts that Ive presented you will still keep going on about how sad and horrid it is that Israel stand up for its self and stop the senseless attacks...but you know what I posted up what I wanted and showed cold hard facts. If you still wish to believe Israel is in the wrong, well your a full on libtard. Sorry I let this degrade in such a manner but I am tired of being senseable with people such as yourself. So I placed the conversation in a manner that you can understand :

You
Are
A
Fucking
Idiot.
I am done with this thread.

I never said my opinions of Israel. This thread degraded because you, chisum, and josh wanted to fight anyone that opposed or disagreed with you. You don't have an open mind, and you are not willing to try and understand why people act and turn out the way they do. Cut and paste, cut and paste, no personal experience, cut and paste. I'm sorry that a fucking. idiot. such. as. myself. got your panties in a bunch after two short posts. Dick.

[tofubento]

I would love to see how and where I copied and pasted anything?
What I posted was from information Ive read in the past, and cited links to validate my findings incase anyone had doubts.

Remember that the people killed at the trade towers where not just people from that area...people from all over where at the locations.

How did I blindly judge anything? Please point out where I made an uneducated decision?

You blame only 3 people for a total degrade of a post? But yet, are you not also involved in the discussion? Are you not also posting a response? Have the other people that have posted in the 35 pages worth of information also helped contribute? In total I believe I have maybe 6 posts for this entire bit. So please explain how with my only 6 posts out of 35pages, I helped in the downfall of this thread?

[Chisum]

You're like an infinitely more annoying Vedubin, copy-pasting just to get a rise out of people.

Eat a box of dicks.

I'm not a bonesmoker. Dude, who's the girl with the fat ass in your sig? Lane Bryant shoppers definitely give me wood. That's what I'm talking about.

[Chisum]

Wow. You are either quite drunk, or damn stupid - My guess is that you are both. I even wonder how you can even read the keys on your computer. BTW, please enlighten me where you read the above statement about me thinking Bush is a terrorist.

Or are you keeping on inventing "true" facts?

BTW What was your latest e30 contribution to this forum?

Dude, I'm not telling you what to believe. I don't care. You said Bush was a terrorist, and America is a state sponsor of terrorism in Iraq. I happen to disagree. I'm not inventing anything. Why all of a sudden are you changing what you said. Now, are you saying Bush is NOT a terrorist, and America is NOT a state sponsor of terrorism in Iraq? You really need to clear this up particularly as it relates to your previous manifesto on "state sponsors of terrorism."

[Chisum]

Sorry, I'm not as good at blindly judging as you are, but i'll just go on a whim here and say that people living and working in new york and DC are a little more fortunate and safe than those living and working in Gaza. Just a guess there...

There is no direct connection, but thanks for telling me the indirect connection which was probably already made clear in your 35 pages of copying and pasting. And where did I argue that Hamas is not a terrorist organization? You know the old saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." It's still true.

I never said my opinions of Israel. This thread degraded because you, chisum, and josh wanted to fight anyone that opposed or disagreed with you. You don't have an open mind, and you are not willing to try and understand why people act and turn out the way they do. Cut and paste, cut and paste, no personal experience, cut and paste. I'm sorry that a fucking. idiot. such. as. myself. got your panties in a bunch after two short posts. Dick.

Hahaha when's the last time you were in NW after 2 a.m.? Parts of Baltimore I don't think are very safe after midnight. I can tell you that firsthand.
I think you are excellent at blind judging. Don't discredit yourself.
You've decided that people you don't agree with degraded the thread. That people who don't agree with you "don't have an open mind." That people who don't agree with you are "brainwashed" and just post "35 pages of copying and pasting."
That people who don't agree with you have "no personal experience."

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."
That's true. If the pundits in the media today would be reporting on Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito they would be portrayed as freedom fighters fighting to get their land back. Well, scratch Hirohito, I don't think he was the problem as much as the people who controlled the government under him.

I dont "have my panties in a bunch," you seem reasonable, I just disagree there is no connection between this and 9/11. All these things are connected and while it may not be the exact same people, this jiihadist mind thinks the same whether it be hamas, hezbollah, al quaida or Ahmadinejad--the ties all lead to the same place. Sometime, someone has to end it.

Bush and Obama both agree this is Israel defending itself. Surely you realize these two people don't agree on very much. And Obama is a former muslim so he surely understands this better than Bush.

[Chisum]

I love it! Typical conservative crap. Someone disagrees with you, so you call them a terrorist, and Muslim, a Palestinian, or whatever the fuck you feel like. Because surely, anyone who disagrees with your enlightened and superior opinion must me a prisoner at Gitmo, a terrorist sympathizer, or hate America.



The hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and other Middle East countries, not Palestine. Hamas and Gaza have absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. Why do you say that they do? It's an out-and-out lie and you know it. Simply because they are Muslims, and the hijackers are Muslim, you assume that they are responsible in 9/11? Are all of the world's 1 billion-plus Muslims responsible in 9/11 then?




Since you love putting words in poeples mouths, I shall now do the same:

Chisum believes that all Muslims hate America, are terrorists, and are responbile for 9/11.

Ok, OK, OK. I just disagree with you. No need to say anything else, right?.

[dlmrun2002]

Hey can we talk about cars? BMW"S ? e30's.... nice

[tofubento]

So I saw this israeli driving and e30, and this arab ALSO driving an e30.

Crazy world it is.