So my brother saw someone killed last night... Opinions?

[HiTheNameIsBJ]

My brother and his girlfriend go out to a local bar last night and there was quite a bit of confrontation throughout the night. Since there were so many arguements taking place bouncers were hostil. One person starts a scene a bouncer grabs him throws him out side and onto his face. He was very drunk, very angry and decided he wanted to run over the bouncer. He gets in his car speeds at the bouncer who moves, reverses at him, puts it back in drive and finnally hits him, breaking his leg. A off duty police officer was there the whole time took it upon himself to empty a clip at the driver who at this point was crashed against the building. The driver is hit in the head, a bullet goes through the front door and hits a bystandered inside. Of course all sorts of police came to the scene, the bystandered was medi-vacced the driver DOA.

My issues with the situation:
Why was the person simply thrown outside to drive home, not placed under citizens arrest by the bouncer or the police officer?

Why was the officer carrying at a bar?

Why were so many rounds fired?

The police officer claims to have been at dunkin donuts, when many witnesses swear he was there all night.

The police officer has the bouncer as his #2 friend on his facbook.


Discuss...

[E30_fiend]

My issues with the situation:
Why was the person simply thrown outside to drive home, not placed under citizens arrest by the bouncer or the police officer?

Why was the officer carrying at a bar?

Why were so many rounds fired?

The police officer claims to have been at dunkin donuts, when many witnesses swear he was there all night.

The police officer has the bouncer as his #2 friend on his facbook.


Discuss...

first answer, I have a lot of buddies who are bouncers and honestly you get caught up in the moment and just get to the person causing the conflict and if that means throwing someone aside, the so beit.

they can carry where ever they want to carry. As long as they have their badge, they can carry the gun.

rounds fired, because he has probably never been able to fire his gun in public and got excited.

dunkin donuts, he probably didnt want to fall into the "cops love donuts" stereotype.

and the whole facebook thing, thats just gay. maybe they play butt darts together.






Taylor

[e30s52]

Alot of officers carry off duty. As for the shots being fired I dont know maybe he thought more is better. One round in my opinion would have been enough but killing him in the process whent way to far. Police officers are trained to not to kill. When the bouncers kicked him out they should have called the police to take him away instead of throwing him on his face.

[HiTheNameIsBJ]

Thats the thing tho, the bouncer didn't have to call the police his off duty cop friend was there. Sure he can't step in when there's a drunk driver to stop, but when there's shooting to be done he's all in. As far as carrying goes, sure carry off duty, as long as you aren't drinking.

[Money$hit]

Officer would get fileted in Ohio.

1.) Cannot carry inside establishments with liquor licenses
2.) Laws against shooting someone who is not threatening your life. (i.e. if it is not YOU specifically who is being targeted, you will still be prosecuted if you are shooting the attacker, who is attacking the victim.) Also, there are TONS of conditions which must be met before you can fire on an attacker. (1. You must make an attempt to flee 2. If you cannot flee, the attacker must be threatening your life 3. You must prove that you were not the cause of the initial conflict)

[HiTheNameIsBJ]

Not that I'm saying to draw and quater the officer or anything, I mean he made a split second decision to save his friend, but there were many other ways to go about it. Had the bouncer been responsible and called the police instead of turning an already aggrivated drunk to the street this would have never happened.

What if this didn't happen what if the guy took off and plowed his jeep into a minivan killing a family. It's ok because it wasn't on their property, and the cops weren't called to their establishment. The more time police are called to your bar the harder it is to get your liquor liscence renewed.

[RickSloan]

i really dont know who you are trying to defend here

the off duty cop should not have fired if he was drinking, the man should not have been allowed to his car, but he should have been stopped after running some one over and he was stopped. Its a shame his life was lost in the process. Yes this all could have been avoided had the situation been handled differently but seeing as how the police were not called the off duty did what he had to, to stop the drunk from harming more people.

[HiTheNameIsBJ]

i really dont know who you are trying to defend here

the off duty cop should not have fired if he was drinking, the man should not have been allowed to his car, but he should have been stopped after running some one over and he was stopped. Its a shame his life was lost in the process. Yes this all could have been avoided had the situation been handled differently but seeing as how the police were not called the off duty did what he had to, to stop the drunk from harming more people.

I'm not sure who to defend here. Looking for opinions, both sides have their arguements, seems police are in the wrong. Not too sure why they're saying he was at dunkin donuts, when he was at the bar all night.

[ansonivan]

Sounds like a shitty bar.

[HiTheNameIsBJ]

It actually is one of the nicest in the area, hardly any problems. We're also in a very low crime area. It's safe to assume that it was the cops first time using his pistol on a person.

[04F2504X4]

My issues with the situation:
Why was the person simply thrown outside to drive home, not placed under citizens arrest by the bouncer or the police officer? Yeah bad call on the bars security ( bouncers.)

Why was the officer carrying at a bar? As said before they are allowed to carry anywhere with a badge

Why were so many rounds fired? From outside a car its probably pretty unclear if you have "stopped" the criminal. He probably unloaded it very quickly to ensure he didnt kick it back into reverse and run the boucer with the broken leg BACK over. Also my cousin is a cop had to use his gun during a chase at a barricade. Said he and many others unloaded on the car cause it was heading straight towards them with no intent on stopping. Increadibly scary moment he described.

The police officer claims to have been at dunkin donuts, when many witnesses swear he was there all night. I dunno on that one...

The police officer has the bouncer as his #2 friend on his facbook.
Or this one butt sex...

Discuss...[/quote]

[HiTheNameIsBJ]

I was always under the impression that police officers are required to always be ready for duty. If they need you, you have to be able to report for duty. This is why they can carry everywhere, but this is why they can't be drinking at a bar. He's apparently a regular at the bar, but the one time something goes down he wasn't there?

Also one of the first rules of gun safety is know the backing. A bar/bowling alley filled with people is NOT a safe backing and an innocent person was shot over it.

To your cousin's unloading on that vehicle is warrented. His life was in danger.

[mrsleeve]

All your questions have been answered and I agree with all of them. The only thing is I dont think they can have their weapon if they are drinking but that varies from state to state and I dont know for sure about cops.

Heres another thing to consider on the hit bystander. I dont know about all cops but all the ones in my area shoot at the club I belong to, and all but one of them cant hit the broad side of a barn from ten paces

[jflip2002]

False. You are always a police officer, but you are very rarely called to duty when off duty. He can be at the bar all he wants. It is not illegal, nor against regulations. They frown upon it, simply because you should not be in the situation where a problem can arise. But thats within his jurisdiction.

They carry weapons because they can, plain and simple. It is more of a feeling of security, in case someone who sees them as a cop, happens to catch them off duty. My work out buddy, who is also my best friend, is a police officer. He carries a gun with him at the gym, at all times.

When you shoot, you shoot to kill. If you want to run someone over, you should be shot in your fucking head. If I were a copy, Id empty clip on him too. He got what he deserved, I feel bad by the bystander who innocently got hit.

Stop being a waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles.

[HiTheNameIsBJ]

lol, yea I've run into a few of them at the range I frequent. Theres one with a 44 mag (don't know make, I shoot rimfires) that misses more 25yrds than he hits. He still feels the need to shoot as fast as possible tho.