our schools suck because of THE LIBERAL AGENDA

[e30e]

LOL, of course you think so, you're a fucking teacher....BWHAHAHAHAHA...

Do you also think if you pay your mechanic twice as much that your going to get any better work from him?
The correct answer is no, because a good mechanic can't give you better quality IF HE'S DOING HIS JOB RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

So what is your point, I would of been a great teacher regardless of pay but chose I wanted a better life style that wasn't part of a failing system. The mechanic example doesnt work but if a mechanic sucks, I wont use him but a good mechanic gets repeat business which is kinda like double pay. Mechanics provide a service, teachers provide a service too; its a shame that mechanics (which i respect alot my brother is one and if you read further you'll get some more insight) get paid more than teachers.

You seem like an intelligent person and I usually agree with you, but you have little to no idea of how the education system works, the inner workings of schools, or the battles of education and children.

Salaries attract people to jobs, you have a low to middle range salary your not going to attract the best and brightest. Because to get to those high salary college professor jobs you have to teach and research and do the chain of commands (paying your dues) for at least 12-15 years. Plus those positions are limited in general.

I'm not trying to say I'm a know it all this subject but issues concerning education have been eating at me for over a year while I was doing my student teaching preparation, this is a personal issue with me. I graduated with a Bachelors of Science in Agriculture Technology and Management - Education. I helped teach mechanics for six years for a professor (welding, irrigation, carpentry, electrical work, concrete, ect) and taught swim lessons for 10 years. To back up the quality of education I received, my department that I was part of was the only department in Arizona to be qualified to certify teachers for five years with no reviews, colleges of education got like 2-3 year deals. My department was 10th in the nation out of 50+ Agriculture Education programs in the country, the only one in the top 20 that didn't have a doctorate program. So if I sound cocky, I got one hell of an education to become an Career and Technical Educator.

Education honestly should be overhauled by teachers, one representing each subject. Not politicians.

[joshh]

Right but if you pay them like shit, you wont get good work outta them to begin with,


When it comes to employees much like products you buy at the store. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

No its not nearly as much the unions as its the Upper management of the school districts

Higher pay doesn't mean you're going to get quality people. When you hire someone you don't hire them at a higher rate than others in their same field. And you don't hire them hoping they can do a good job. You hire the person because you know they're going to do a good job. And you hold them to it.
The day they bitch and complain is the day you tell them they agreed to do the job for the rate you both agreed on. And if that doesn't work you find the right person. And the right person doesn't go around bitching and whining about accepting an underpaying job and prove it by under performing.
They only get raises if they are preforming.

Teachers aren't paid like shit. I'd make the argument that many teachers are overpaid. Specially with the way our children are walking out of schools dumber than ever...and yes the teacher matters here. And no it's not just everything else but the teacher.

Increasing the pay of all our teachers...do you think that alone would solve our problem with our education? You perform you get paid more.

[Alkasquawlik]

UMMM I missed this one.

Most schools start about 1868 or reconstruction. They do a little bit on the Pilgrims in elementary and then in Middle school jump over the revolution other than telling you who GW is. Then jump right to Civil war reconstruction. You learn that Lincoln was shot because some guy hated him because he freed the slaves. You learn that all white people hated black people and kept them as salves. You learn that the 3/5 clause only counted freed blacks as 3/5 of a person blah balh blah.

There is very little to do with the revolution the founders and the Constitution. I got it but I am pushing 30 and went to a very small rural school and still used very old txt books. But the shit I learned then is still very very revisionist and leaves much out. But at least I got the revolution and the lead up, and the civil war and slavery. Much more so than now days. The modern text books make (that mention it) make is seem that all white people owned slaves. It sickening to be honest, those who dont know history are doomed to repeat it. The scope of WWI WWII, Korea Nam and what not consist of evil US hate of other nations and bossing them around.

Tucson schools have been teaching a Version of history based on the race of the child. All the Indians are in one calls, all the blacks in another, Hispanics, Asians, and whites as well. They get a History based on that groups Plight at the hands of the white man, and the white kids get the full boat of white guilt. I know this because my mom is a public school teacher and she is fully disgusted with what they are trying to push. Shes a science teacher and just sticks with the FACTS not the political agenda.

I don't know about other schools, but in my school district I specifically remember that I had to recite the Preamble to my teacher in 8th grade. We obviously learned about the Bill of Rights and whatever, but I think that was the last time we really learned it. We glossed over it real quick in Government senior year, but I was usually sleeping in that class anyway.

[mrsleeve]

Higher pay doesn't mean you're going to get quality people. When you hire someone you don't hire them at a higher rate than others in their same field. And you don't hire them hoping they can do a good job. You hire the person because you know they're going to do a good job. And you hold them to it.
The day they bitch and complain is the day you tell them they agreed to do the job for the rate you both agreed on. And if that doesn't work you find the right person. And the right person doesn't go around bitching and whining about accepting an underpaying job and prove it by under performing.
They only get raises if they are preforming.

Teachers aren't paid like shit. I'd make the argument that many teachers are overpaid. Specially with the way our children are walking out of schools dumber than ever...and yes the teacher matters here. And no it's not just everything else but the teacher.

Increasing the pay of all our teachers...do you think that alone would solve our problem with our education? You perform you get paid more.

SO you would go get a professional degree to take a job (that requires that degree) for a annual salary of 19K. My mom did in 1997 (with her masters) as still dose not make more than 45k in a year.

[joshh]

So what is your point, I would of been a great teacher regardless of pay but chose I wanted a better life style that wasn't part of a failing system. The mechanic example doesnt work but if a mechanic sucks, I wont use him but a good mechanic gets repeat business which is kinda like double pay. Mechanics provide a service, teachers provide a service too; its a shame that mechanics (which i respect alot my brother is one and if you read further you'll get some more insight) get paid more than teachers.

You seem like an intelligent person and I usually agree with you, but you have little to no idea of how the education system works, the inner workings of schools, or the battles of education and children.

Salaries attract people to jobs, you have a low to middle range salary your not going to attract the best and brightest. Because to get to those high salary college professor jobs you have to teach and research and do the chain of commands (paying your dues) for at least 12-15 years. Plus those positions are limited in general.

I'm not trying to say I'm a know it all this subject but issues concerning education have been eating at me for over a year while I was doing my student teaching preparation, this is a personal issue with me. I graduated with a Bachelors of Science in Agriculture Technology and Management - Education. I helped teach mechanics for six years for a professor (welding, irrigation, carpentry, electrical work, concrete, ect) and taught swim lessons for 10 years. To back up the quality of education I received, my department that I was part of was the only department in Arizona to be qualified to certify teachers for five years with no reviews, colleges of education got like 2-3 year deals. My department was 10th in the nation out of 50+ Agriculture Education programs in the country, the only one in the top 20 that didn't have a doctorate program. So if I sound cocky, I got one hell of an education to become an Career and Technical Educator.

Education honestly should be overhauled by teachers, one representing each subject. Not politicians.

Of course I don't know everything about how the school systems work. And I'm sure and know first hand that there is a ton of utter BS that goes on in our school system.

Does pay matter, sure it does....to a point. But this country turning into what it's turning into the pay wouldn't change a damned thing in our schools. Which is why talking about teachers is not like your average job. It's a whole fucked up subject in itself.
Seeing teachers bitch and whine about pay then go right ahead and turn down being paid based on production...then there are the parents to get into. What a fucking mess.

But then again that also has to do with parents and the way many of them fail at it.

[joshh]

SO you would go get a professional degree to take a job (that requires that degree) for a annual salary of 19K. My mom did in 1997 (with her masters) as still dose not make more than 45k in a year.

I went over this to some degree in my above post.
I don't look for jobs based on pay alone.

I would never be able to be a teacher because the minute a smart ass kid spoke up, I'd be in jail...lol.

[ck_taft325is]

I just want to point out that I never got an answer from Mr. Turf.

[z31maniac]

Your right its the unions fault :roll: , if the unions were so "good (evil in your mind)" then why are teachers being laid off left and right?

Oh and how exactly do you measure production in education, because standardized testing has failed this country.

Harvard, you know that small insignificant school out on the East Coast released a study saying, the fastest and cheapest way to overhaul education in this country would be to dismantle teachers unions.

[Naplm00]

Wow you are about as fucking ignorant as it comes, be a substitute teacher for a day and tell me its easy and you don't know shit. Since your probably a lazy fuck with a comment like that and wouldn't go substitute, look up the teaching requirements for your state and tell me its an easy achievement to get a teaching cert.

LOL what a crock! Your damn right I wouldnt go sub..its a SHIT job. Low pay, get annoyed by students and almost anyone with half a brain can do it.

Most of the people I knew in college who werent in a dedicated track were flakin out inot criminal justice or history to become a teacher.


I'm not saying all teachers are idiots or that the the job is easy, but it is easy to get into and that is why the pay sucks.

Hence why our system sucks

[Naplm00]

Harvard, you know that small insignificant school out on the East Coast released a study saying, the fastest and cheapest way to overhaul education in this country would be to dismantle teachers unions.

I was mostly a supporter of unions until I saw the bullshit that the NJEA is putting the state of NJ through. Its fucking retarded.

THey are laying off teachers who make 30-50k a year instead of administratiors who make 100-400k a year.

All because they dont want to accept a ONE year pay freeze and pay 1.5% of thier pay into healthcare. Right now its is 100% free, they dont pay shit

[briansjacobs]

I have not had this thread at all but I will put a quick 2 cents in.

Our schools suck partly because our parents suck! If you have a bright kid they will do well anywhere. Yes a better school will yeild a higher percentage, but my point is the way our society has evolved with both parents out of the home working the kids are being left behind at home, with budgets getiing cut in schools kids are not getting the attention they use to get. Add all of this together and you have kids that are not getting the attention they did when I was in school.

The fighting for teacher salaries and benefits has little to do with the lack of education the kids are getting today.

want your kids to do better and get a better education, it starts with you!

[Turf1600]

I just want to point out that I never got an answer from Mr. Turf.

Too busy to read all of this. Maybe tonight after 10.

[Wiglaf]

you still have not answered my original 3 questions that you started this thread with

obviously you didnt do to well on the Constitution test

To tell the truth that was over 20 years ago and I just plain don't remember the specifics well enough to argue. History isn't my best subject.

That was my answer.
At the time, I couldn't have been LESS interested. The day after the test that was already out of my brain and replaced by something I was more interested in at the time. I thought history was a total 100% waste of time, math and science is where it's at.

nowadays I know that it is at least 5% useful.

[mrsleeve]

That was my answer.
At the time, I couldn't have been LESS interested. The day after the test that was already out of my brain and replaced by something I was more interested in at the time. I thought history was a total 100% waste of time, math and science is where it's at.

nowadays I know that it is at least 5% useful.

Those who dont know history, are destined to repeat it.- Edmund Burke


You chronic liberal view point, and lack of historical understanding is just proof in the pudding of Mr Burke's assertions.

If you dont know and are taught only what and from a particular view point wants, then thats all you will know. No matter how close or how far from the truth it may be. Now we are so far from the truth because it helps further the agenda of the Progressives on both sides of the isle to take more and more power and grow the Govt even more.

[ck_taft325is]

Too busy to read all of this. Maybe tonight after 10.

I look forward to it ;)