$5 Gas in 2012?

[nando]

NO its not a BS answer. The administrations official position has been more environmental study more time to study environment impact . more more more studies. When there have been almost 5 years of study form govt (state and fed), shipper and 3rd party sources. All have cleared the route and design plans originally, with special attention to mitigate, and minimize sensitive environmental areas and issues.

Like I have said Pipelines are the flavor of the day for environmental activism to attack. just like Farming was 30 years ago, logging was 20 years ago, mining 10 years ago, drilling and pipelines are now what you guys are out to destroy, and have much more support form the govt with this administration.

They have studied the XL to death, and have even done another reroute in Nebraska and added at least a 100 million to construction costs to do so, to appease the administration. Why do we still not have the federal permit for that 500 foot section of a 1600 mile pipeline????? Oh thats right stall for more time and claim we need more studies, until we get one that we like and says what we want it to say......................

I think he stalled more for political reasons, to appease to the enviromentalist left before the election. I expect it will get approved soon after the election.

hasn't obama approved more drilling permits than bush did during his entire 8 years? or the rate per year was higher or something? I can't remember, but Obama has pretty much ignored the envirowackos on fracking.

you guys have valid points but seriously, put the tinfoil hats away for once..

[Morrison]

could it be cheap oil and gas somehow don't dovetail into the solyndra's and wind farms of the admin's wet dreams?

100 years of proven reserves of natural gas undermine the admin's political aims

Or could it be that their political aims are in favor of cheap fuel? Intentionally causing an increase in fuel cost would be political suicide, so unless you assume Obama lacks intelligence then your theory falls apart.

Installation of the pipeline would have RAISED domestic oil prices as explained here: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...eal-all-along/

[mrsleeve]

No. Very incorrect. Your govt taxes the shit out of it more than ours. We are not subsdize in consumer fuel at all. The left would like us all to think so but they cheery pick and twist the facts to make it seem so. Our govt makes more on oil/gas than the oil companies do.

Unlike australia here in the us we pay for our fuel and heath care seperatly

[purple haze]

man petrol is soo much cheaper in the US your government subsidises the shit out of it compared to australia, in aus fuel is heaps more expensive, thats why half the people drive shitty little toyotas!

[mrsleeve]

ya think ?????


lol

[gwb72tii]

could it be cheap oil and gas somehow don't dovetail into the solyndra's and wind farms of the admin's wet dreams?

100 years of proven reserves of natural gas undermine the admin's political aims

[mrsleeve]

NO its not a BS answer. The administrations official position has been more environmental study more time to study environment impact . more more more studies. When there have been almost 5 years of study form govt (state and fed), shipper and 3rd party sources. All have cleared the route and design plans originally, with special attention to mitigate, and minimize sensitive environmental areas and issues.

Like I have said Pipelines are the flavor of the day for environmental activism to attack. just like Farming was 30 years ago, logging was 20 years ago, mining 10 years ago, drilling and pipelines are now what you guys are out to destroy, and have much more support form the govt with this administration.

They have studied the XL to death, and have even done another reroute in Nebraska and added at least a 100 million to construction costs to do so, to appease the administration. Why do we still not have the federal permit for that 500 foot section of a 1600 mile pipeline????? Oh thats right stall for more time and claim we need more studies, until we get one that we like and says what we want it to say......................

[herbivor]

there is a lot more too it than 99.9% of the population understand, and the hippies just refuse to wrap their heads around those facts.

I'm sure you are very knowledgeable about this subject and have your opinions about the pipelines but I am genuinely curious of an intelligent reason why there are environmental concerns and opposition to the pipeline if everything is a safe as you say it is. I hear what you're saying, but there has to be a reason why the administration is blocking construction. So far I haven't heard it except "Obama and hippies don't like Big Oil" which is a bullshit answer.

[rwh11385]

That's how it is though... And most of the population thinks that watching a 3 minute snippet on their politically-supported network of choice can 'inform' them. Both sides give some facts and some BS, but few actually try to seek the truth in-between, or additional information. Yes, it does help secure friendly energy resources, but also yes, there are environmental risks. It's not right to consider one but not the other, although too many put their hands over their ears when it's not what they want to hear.

Politics is scary since we trust them to be informed, yet we've seen they're legislating on issues they are clueless about, like SOPA. And as much as they should be doing what's best for the public... they are also influenced by the campaign contributions, or what is most popular with their target demographic of voters. (*cough* I wonder what Obama cared about most in his decision, the technical information concerning the project or the supporters of blocking it?)

[mrsleeve]

there is a lot more too it than 99.9% of the population understand, and the hippies just refuse to wrap their heads around those facts.

[rwh11385]

Yeah, stuff like the problems ran into should be a cause for quality improvement initiative, not a "derp, let's forget the whole idea because of some issues". (Although some people exercise that thinking regularly...) It's good to know that pipes are serialized like other important products - it's not like it's all mystery metal, tracking to the source / batch is valuable.

[mrsleeve]

Not that it would help prices at the pump, as oil is globally traded. But it would help secure our own supplies, and from a close and friendly source for decades to come. It will also allow for our own domestic supplies an easy route to refiners.

Yes its a a know fact that Welspun had some bad pipe a while back, and thats why every pipe in the ground is tracked with a heat number (to track its batch of steel and manufacturer) from mill to final instillation point. If the heat number is lost or a partial joint is used and the heat is not transferred to the unused portion. Well you cant use that portion of pipe in the line.

. Transcanada and Welspun know what heat numbers are in that line and where each joint of pipe out of those batches lies to with in millimeters. They know where they may have bad pipe. While expanding pipe is generally a bad thing, shippers occasionally do a spike test aka SMYS (specified minimum yield strength). Its a type of hydro test where you go to nearly 100% yield of the the pipe it self and stretch it and hold it at that pressure for a prescribed amount of time. then put the line back in service, so stretched pipe is not necessarily a bad thing, this is why the regulators have laxed the standard. Decades of data from spike tests on old stuff still in the ground .

While its good they have gone back and found anomalies, its not really the fault of the shipper, now is it, that was a foreign manufacture, and the QA/QC on their end. That and they are providing no details, it could be something as simple as a small dent from natural settlement and a rock under the pipe or in the padding materiel that was missed, or a bad weld fit up that the tool has found that was determined to be good when under construction. An anomaly is not necessarily a case of bad pipe or need to be replaced.

[rwh11385]

I'd always give the benefit of any doubt on pipelines to sleeve...

But I don't think that the XL would help our gas prices, although it'd greatly help our oil companies as well as jobs. Plenty of suppliers for the construction were from around the midwest. Plus, like people have argued a lot, it's a private venture so gov kiss off..... as long as things are safe and up to standard.

I think nando may have been referring to this previous issue-prone TransCanada job: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/m...501b8df75.html
or concerns about pipe quality: http://plainsjustice.org/files/Subst...teelReport.pdf

Although that should be protected again and ensured not to repeat, not an all-out roadblock to it. That's just overly simple and close-minded (of the President and protesters). There's been plenty of things that have gone wrong when done poorly, but fine while done right. Just throwing out the baby with the bath water is silly.

But in other news... yeah, that's gonna impact gas prices in California... http://fuelfix.com/blog/2012/08/07/e...st-gas-prices/

[mrsleeve]

I'm sure you have more knowledge on this subject than I do but you obviously admit there are environmental risks. I suppose you are saying the pipeline is worth the risks? Then why do you think the Obama Administration and many land owners think otherwise? They have to have a logical reason for not wanting to build it. Enlighten me of why that is.

really ????? Are you just trolling me now or something???

We have over 2 million miles of in service oil/gas/products lines in this country. Most were built decades ago, how often are there issues???? NOT very considering the shear amount of them. Those have been in service for 30+ years are built with softer steels, crappy anti corrosion controls and coatings, not to mention less stringent procedures and techniques and construction over sight, than we use today. The fact they are still in service and for the most part still delivering products to the tune of billions of barrels of year nearly 100% issue free, all over the place should tell you something about how long the new stuff we are building now will hold up over the next century.

The synopsis for the O-mans energy policy. "prices will necessarily sky rocket". His energy policy has used the EPA, federal land grabs, nonexistent govt leases sales, along with other regulatory measures to shut in and lock out vast amounts of conventional resources from both domestic off shore and land based recovery. All while claiming drilling is up in the US, Yup sure is on PRIVATE land that the he can have little influence over.

You hippies hate oil we know that, especially Alberta tar sands oil. Pipelines are the flavor of the day villain of the enviro nazis. You guys protest the construction of NEW, latest and greatest tech and supplies that will take some demand off the old and decaying shit. You bitch and claim it will poison the ogallala, but totally discount the current OLD and Dieing 22,000 miles of Products line already running though the very same area. The O man hates cheap energy this is a fact. As far as "land owners, 99% of them you see on TV against it" are not along the route they my be adjacent to it but they are not getting any thing out of the deal or any lease or damages money for it so yeah, or if they are, are pissed they didnt get as much as their neighbors got in their deals.



Edit: Fear and ignorance are the primary tools you guys use. In fact about 10 years ago when I lived in MI I was waiting on a 10" products new construction job form Lansing to north Mt Pleasant a tank farm to tank farm job to get Gas, Diesel and other liquid fuels north easier. Well all you saw on the news was to suburban soccer moms who lived along the purposed route saying that their fire place was 85 feet from the line and that was going to blow up and kill them all. When in reality ( I saw the prints) Pipe wall in densely populated areas .500 wall pipe and a burial depth of 7 foot minimum after those concerns were raised. These people started the commotion after initial approval for the job, pipe had been bought ROW was being bought up, people being mobilized and so on. Well 2 grew into 4, into 10 into what seemed like the entire community in about a 2 mile stretch about 98% of those people were not along the route nor would be affected them if there was an emergency in the future. But then they were not getting any lease money or anything out it either. The use of fear over the ignorant

All in the name of safety of the children, yet too this day there are 160 and up too 250 tanker truck loads a day shipping the same product on the public highway system between the farms. You tell me which has a greater environmental and human safety risk????/

[herbivor]

Obama is not for Big Oil and the land owners will not get paid what they think its worth to run pipe though their land.

I think there is more to it than that, a better answer.