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    Originally posted by naplesE30 View Post
    About that 97%...
    And that is a debate that CAN be had. The extent at which the planet is warming and the contributing factors can be debated for sure. And man's hand in that warming obviously as one of those factors. But so many deny climate change altogether and try to debate THAT. Which, as articles posted above show, is a non-debatable issue to anyone with a mind capable of looking at evidence. Sea level is rising, poles are warming, etc. The 97% is being used as a political tool. It's technically true, but misrepresented. However, the number 50% chosen by Cook to support that misrepresentation is itself a misrepresentation to arrive at 1.6%. If man is causing 20% of greenhouse gases, it's significant. Why choose 50%? We know why... to arrive at an equally jarring number as 97% but supporting the opposite point of view.

    Originally posted by ELVA164 View Post
    Oh, here's a relevant one: the effectiveness of vaccines for containing disease is a matter of scientific consensus, but that doesn't stop people from believing otherwise.
    Ding, Ding, Ding. Some people, no matter what you show them, have just made up their minds and will plow through life unable to reason and grow. Unfortunately, those people breed and we end up with another generation of closed-minded automatons. This is how/why religion has survived through the ages. Why religious zealots/terrorists will always be a thing. Why racism/descrimination will always be a thing. You could go on and on.
    "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
    -----------------------------------------
    91 318is Turbo Sold
    87 325 Daily driver Sold
    06 4.8is X5
    06 Mtec X3
    05 4.4i X5 Sold
    92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
    90 325i Sold
    97 328is Sold
    01 323ci Sold
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    83 528e Totaled
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      Originally posted by marshallnoise View Post
      You people are soft.
      *eyeroll*
      Last edited by decay; 05-01-2019, 06:50 PM.
      past:
      1989 325is (learner shitbox)
      1986 325e (turbo dorito)
      1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
      current:
      1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
      2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)

      Comment


        Yikes
        Interested in vintage cars? Ever thought about racing one? Info, photos, videos, and more can be found at www.michaelsvintageracing.com!

        Elva Courier build thread here!

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          Originally posted by decay View Post
          *eyeroll*

          Got a talking to again?
          Si vis pacem, para bellum.

          New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
          Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
          Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

          79 Bronco SHTF Build

          Comment


            Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post
            I don't think that's the flaw. It's the outright denial of science based on political ideology. Remember even those on the right were all for climate change, right up until the kock brothers threatened to cut off their funding. After that point the discussion moved from one of science to one of politics. Hell, they made the republicans sign pledges to deny climate change. That's pretty obviously politics, not science.

            Um, no. The right still is for being responsible with the environment. They just leapt off the GW train when the lefties said that it was reasonable to destroy the economy as a means to fix it.


            We're talking about over 10000 climate scientists, spanning every country on the globe, almost entirely saying the same things. Only in america is this a political issue, and only in america is there denial.

            The common number is 97% of scientists say the same thing. Yet you have an entire political party going against science. If you went to 100 doctors, and 97 of them said you have cancer, but 3 said you didn't, which would you believe? Naturally the 97. What GW and his side does is say "well, those 97 doctors are Democrats so they must be lying". When it has nothing to do with political affiliation.

            Naples did more than I could to dismantle this trope. So I will leave that alone.


            This makes me think you know very little about evolution. Its not an over night process. It takes thousands of years with only slight variation in species. Science says modern humans have been around for roughly 250 thousand years. Yet today people still have neanderthal dna, we still have vestigial organs such as tailbones, wisdom teeth, ect.. These are things humans haven't needed for thousands of years, yet we still have them because we haven't had enough time to evolve them away completely as a species.

            I absolutely get how evolution works. But you do realize that the other part of Darwin's theories were about the immediate, right? A large tortoise with a short neck couldn't eat while others with longer necks could eat in a drought caused by NOT A SINGLE HUMAN EVER that year would die. That is survival of the fittest on a short term scale. Well, when humans can gradually see sea levels rise, then the idiot who stays behind will be under water. There is natural selection in action.



            My point isn't any less valid. It is an immediate process as well as a long term process. Both, And in this case.


            You remember when humans put a hole in the ozone layer. Then humans banned the aerosol that caused it because scientists. Now the hole is closing up. So there are coarse corrections that will have actual impacts on the environment.

            Well that is a clear cause and effect. What is not clear is the fuzzy ass science in AGW combined with the socialist shit tacked on to the left's cure. Big freaking difference.
            Si vis pacem, para bellum.

            New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
            Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
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            79 Bronco SHTF Build

            Comment


              I hate when 99% of the world's scientist conspire together to make stuff up like this. I work at a gas station with a bachelors in psychology and it's plainly obvious that global warming is a hoax invented by the Chinese. Don't even get me started on the Earth being round.

              Comment


                Originally posted by marshallnoise View Post
                Got a talking to again?
                nope.
                past:
                1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                current:
                1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
                2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Longile View Post
                  I hate when 99% of the world's scientist conspire together to make stuff up like this. I work at a gas station with a bachelors in psychology and it's plainly obvious that global warming is a hoax invented by the Chinese. Don't even get me started on the Earth being round.
                  At least you upped the ante from 97 to 99 percent even though the figures are proven bullshit.

                  Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
                  Si vis pacem, para bellum.

                  New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
                  Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
                  Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

                  79 Bronco SHTF Build

                  Comment


                    Marshal, let me make something clear here. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I'm not even American. I have no issue with either ideology, and see benefits to both schools of thought. What I take issue with is the actual policies or lack thereof.

                    You on the other hand seem to have severe bias towards "lefties" or "socialists or however you wish to describe them. I'm not saying that to start a argument, I'm saying it cause maybe you need to check that a little, just for objectivity. I admit I have to do this myself aswell.

                    You go on and on about how taking any action is somehow going to destroy the economy. How exactly? By creating new industries and the jobs that go with them? By moving away from archaic industries like coal? Which by the way, currently employs a third of the workforce that solar does in your own country? Here's something most americans don't get, the rest of the world is leaving you behind. While your fighting to keep coal, and big oil wealthy, the rest of the planet in moving forward. Investing in renewable energy. Building both the infrastructure and industries to support it. These are high tech, high demand, and high paying jobs. This is already happening around the globe, except in america. Due largely to republican policy and ideology. A great example is Puerto Rico, you have great chance to invest in renewables and use it as a test best and blueprint for the viability of such tech. The people there even voted for that, instead your republican party is ignoring the will of the people and forcing them to go back to the same system that failed in the first place. Because of greed and big oils grip on them. Remember that after the hurricane hit, the only places with power on the island were using solar. Maybe thats a sign.

                    I fear this is just going to be another example of America abdicating it's spot as a global leader. You guys use to make the best shit, have the best middle class, the best education, best manufacturing, etc ect.. No one took those things from you, you willingly abdicated them all. Cause while you guys sat on your asses hollering about being number 1, the rest of the world kept working, kept striving, and have come to surpass you. That's on you guys solely. And it's gonna keep happening. Climate change is just another example. You are the only country on the planet that is still debating this issue, still debating science, and still debating things that you can see with your own eyes, because of politics. Mean while the rest of the world is taking action, progressing, and moving forward. Leaving you behind, when you could be leading.

                    As was stated, anti climate change is no different than anti vaxxers or flat earthers. Its pseudo science at its best.

                    I like to use movies as a good example. Would you rather have the future depicted in blade runner? High tech, but enviromentely fucked. Or the future depicted in back to the future? Just as high tech, but still a beautiful place to live. Both those futures are possible, but it all comes down to choices.

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                      ^ yeah, what he said x 1000000000000000000000000000000
                      My Feedback

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                        Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post
                        Marshal, let me make something clear here. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I'm not even American. I have no issue with either ideology, and see benefits to both schools of thought. What I take issue with is the actual policies or lack thereof.

                        You on the other hand seem to have severe bias towards "lefties" or "socialists or however you wish to describe them. I'm not saying that to start a argument, I'm saying it cause maybe you need to check that a little, just for objectivity. I admit I have to do this myself aswell.

                        You go on and on about how taking any action is somehow going to destroy the economy. How exactly? By creating new industries and the jobs that go with them? By moving away from archaic industries like coal? Which by the way, currently employs a third of the workforce that solar does in your own country? Here's something most americans don't get, the rest of the world is leaving you behind. While your fighting to keep coal, and big oil wealthy, the rest of the planet in moving forward. Investing in renewable energy. Building both the infrastructure and industries to support it. These are high tech, high demand, and high paying jobs. This is already happening around the globe, except in america. Due largely to republican policy and ideology. A great example is Puerto Rico, you have great chance to invest in renewables and use it as a test best and blueprint for the viability of such tech. The people there even voted for that, instead your republican party is ignoring the will of the people and forcing them to go back to the same system that failed in the first place. Because of greed and big oils grip on them. Remember that after the hurricane hit, the only places with power on the island were using solar. Maybe thats a sign.

                        I fear this is just going to be another example of America abdicating it's spot as a global leader. You guys use to make the best shit, have the best middle class, the best education, best manufacturing, etc ect.. No one took those things from you, you willingly abdicated them all. Cause while you guys sat on your asses hollering about being number 1, the rest of the world kept working, kept striving, and have come to surpass you. That's on you guys solely. And it's gonna keep happening. Climate change is just another example. You are the only country on the planet that is still debating this issue, still debating science, and still debating things that you can see with your own eyes, because of politics. Mean while the rest of the world is taking action, progressing, and moving forward. Leaving you behind, when you could be leading.

                        As was stated, anti climate change is no different than anti vaxxers or flat earthers. Its pseudo science at its best.

                        I like to use movies as a good example. Would you rather have the future depicted in blade runner? High tech, but enviromentely fucked. Or the future depicted in back to the future? Just as high tech, but still a beautiful place to live. Both those futures are possible, but it all comes down to choices.
                        Bravo sir. Bravo.
                        "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
                        -----------------------------------------
                        91 318is Turbo Sold
                        87 325 Daily driver Sold
                        06 4.8is X5
                        06 Mtec X3
                        05 4.4i X5 Sold
                        92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
                        90 325i Sold
                        97 328is Sold
                        01 323ci Sold
                        92 325i Sold
                        83 528e Totaled
                        98 328i Sold
                        93 325i Sold

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by marshallnoise View Post
                          Um, no. The right still is for being responsible with the environment. They just leapt off the GW train when the lefties said that it was reasonable to destroy the economy as a means to fix it.
                          Explain how investments in renewable technologies will destroy the economy...I've asked for someone to explain it to me a million times and it's still the strongest argument against renewables without an actual explanation.

                          There are plenty of areas in the world that have already switched over and their economies are doing fine, why can't that be scaled up to meet the demands the US has? Obviously it can't happen all at once and will take some time to phase in, but if we had the ability to take down the Nazis, the Communists, and send men to the moon, and satellites to the far reaches of our solar system, why can't we switch from fossil fuels and renewable energies without destroying the economy?

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by mbonder View Post
                            Explain how investments in renewable technologies will destroy the economy...I've asked for someone to explain it to me a million times and it's still the strongest argument against renewables without an actual explanation.

                            There are plenty of areas in the world that have already switched over and their economies are doing fine, why can't that be scaled up to meet the demands the US has? Obviously it can't happen all at once and will take some time to phase in, but if we had the ability to take down the Nazis, the Communists, and send men to the moon, and satellites to the far reaches of our solar system, why can't we switch from fossil fuels and renewable energies without destroying the economy?
                            I don't see the point of engaging in this really considering everything in this link you agree with lock, stock and barrel.

                            https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...ution/109/text

                            Tell me mbonder, are you willing to give up the laptop or cell phone you are using to write me back? Because there is so much fossil fuel in those two products...its just simply not logical to conclude that we can live with out plastic, oil, transportation, etc.

                            Renewables are fine. Once again, no one is saying that using all sources of energy available to us is going to destroy the economy. But when you tie in social justice bullshit as a reason to implement wide, sweeping changes via climate regulation, you aren't actually worried about the climate: You are just using it as a tool to get what you want.

                            Even NPR knows this kind of shit will redefine the economy. https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/69199...w-deal-outline

                            Originally posted by NPR
                            What are the specifics of that framework?
                            The bill calls for a "10-year national mobilizations" toward accomplishing a series of goals that the resolution lays out.
                            (Note: Ocasio-Cortez's office released an updated version of the bill on Thursday. The earlier version, which we had included in a prior version of this story, is still available here.)
                            Among the most prominent, the deal calls for "meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the United States through clean, renewable, and zero-emission energy sources." The ultimate goal is to stop using fossil fuels entirely, Ocasio-Cortez's office told NPR, as well as to transition away from nuclear energy.
                            In addition, the framework, as described in the legislation as well as a blog post — containing an updated version of "FAQs" provided to NPR by Ocasio-Cortez's office — calls for a variety of other lofty goals:
                            • "upgrading all existing buildings" in the country for energy efficiency;
                            • working with farmers "to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions ... as much as is technologically feasible" (while supporting family farms and promoting "universal access to healthy food");
                            • "Overhauling transportation systems" to reduce emissions — including expanding electric car manufacturing, building "charging stations everywhere," and expanding high-speed rail to "a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary";
                            • A guaranteed job "with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations and retirement security" for every American;
                            • "High-quality health care" for all Americans.

                            Which is to say: the Green New Deal framework combines big climate-change-related ideas with a wish list of progressive economic proposals that, taken together, would touch nearly every American and overhaul the economy.



                            Look, California voters passed a proposition to install a high-speed rail. It quickly devolved into hell. So much so that Gavin Newsome HAD to cancel it. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-rail-canceled

                            Why? When the government is given the purse strings, it fucks it up.

                            Look, everyone cares about the environment. I do. I most certainly do. But just like Christianity and Islam, people really do loathsome things in the name of the Environment. Including defy logic and reason just to further their political ambition.

                            All I know is that the government regulating shit does not work out well for the environment nor the citizenry. Especially in this current political situation.

                            https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rillion-a-year

                            Sitting down and having discussions about reasonable and rational ideas is fine. Implementing them is fine too. BUT AT WHAT COST? Is there a reasonable cost? Not from what I can see being proposed by the climate alarmists out there.

                            You would do a hell of a lot better for the cause by beating back the insane, illogical environmentalist types who truly don't give a fuck about the environment. You simply cannot go "carbon neutral" in 10 years in the United States without fucking up everything else in the process.
                            Last edited by marshallnoise; 05-14-2019, 04:06 PM. Reason: fixing the damned formatting
                            Si vis pacem, para bellum.

                            New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
                            Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
                            Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

                            79 Bronco SHTF Build

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post
                              Marshal, let me make something clear here. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I'm not even American. I have no issue with either ideology, and see benefits to both schools of thought. What I take issue with is the actual policies or lack thereof.
                              I am not sure you do. But ok.

                              You on the other hand seem to have severe bias towards "lefties" or "socialists or however you wish to describe them. I'm not saying that to start a argument, I'm saying it cause maybe you need to check that a little, just for objectivity. I admit I have to do this myself aswell.
                              What do I need to check exactly? Socialism and lefties have an ideology I abhor. They are responsible for nearly all of the pain and suffering of the 20th century. Denial of that is not allowed.

                              You go on and on about how taking any action is somehow going to destroy the economy. How exactly? By creating new industries and the jobs that go with them?
                              No, by forcing us to change the way we do everything with zero plan to do so other than saying "zero carbon output," consequences be damned. Its halfbaked.

                              By moving away from archaic industries like coal? Which by the way, currently employs a third of the workforce that solar does in your own country?
                              That's only because the government is giving massive tax credits/rebates for purchasing solar. Unless there is an economic motive, no one would do it. That's how they sell solar here: "Is your electricity bill over $150 a month?? You should get solar!"

                              Here's something most americans don't get, the rest of the world is leaving you behind. While your fighting to keep coal, and big oil wealthy, the rest of the planet in moving forward. Investing in renewable energy. Building both the infrastructure and industries to support it. These are high tech, high demand, and high paying jobs. This is already happening around the globe, except in america.
                              Not really bud. Define the rest of the planet exactly? Western Europe? Perhaps. Not China, not India, not the continent of Africa.

                              https://phys.org/news/2019-02-coal-c...worldwide.html

                              You have an idea about yourself that simply isn't true.

                              Due largely to republican policy and ideology.
                              There it is! I knew it would show up!

                              A great example is Puerto Rico, you have great chance to invest in renewables and use it as a test best and blueprint for the viability of such tech. The people there even voted for that, instead your republican party is ignoring the will of the people and forcing them to go back to the same system that failed in the first place. Because of greed and big oils grip on them. Remember that after the hurricane hit, the only places with power on the island were using solar. Maybe thats a sign.
                              What the fuck are you talking about? A hurricane wiped out the island and you are saying that the original electrical grid "failed in the first place"? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

                              Let's think about this for 3 minutes: If the entire island of Puerto Rico was solar based, wind based, green whatthefuckever, and a hurricane wiped it out, you think that windmills and solar panels would survive? Oy vey!

                              I fear this is just going to be another example of America abdicating it's spot as a global leader. You guys use to make the best shit, have the best middle class, the best education, best manufacturing, etc ect.. No one took those things from you, you willingly abdicated them all. Cause while you guys sat on your asses hollering about being number 1, the rest of the world kept working, kept striving, and have come to surpass you. That's on you guys solely. And it's gonna keep happening. Climate change is just another example. You are the only country on the planet that is still debating this issue, still debating science, and still debating things that you can see with your own eyes, because of politics. Mean while the rest of the world is taking action, progressing, and moving forward. Leaving you behind, when you could be leading.
                              See the article above. You don't have a fucking clue about what you are talking about. And that's ok. I guess.

                              As was stated, anti climate change is no different than anti vaxxers or flat earthers. Its pseudo science at its best.
                              Anti-climate change people (whatever that means) is not the same thing as anti-vaxxers or flat earthers. Its bullshit that you even say that. It must feel good to say that, but its not based in any sort of reality.

                              Every reasonable person on this planet can agree that humans have an impact on the environment and climate change.

                              What every reasonable person on the planet cannot agree on, rationally, is that humans are solely responsible for it and that the solution is to go back to horse and buggy minus the horse because it shits and causes greenhouse gas emissions while the global elite fly their personal jets around, eat caviar and not give a shit about the plebs. (See Leo DiCaprio.)

                              I like to use movies as a good example. Would you rather have the future depicted in blade runner? High tech, but enviromentely fucked. Or the future depicted in back to the future? Just as high tech, but still a beautiful place to live. Both those futures are possible, but it all comes down to choices.
                              Way to use solid science to explain absolutely fuckall.

                              Once again, who in here is going to explain the racist effects of implementing some of these climate change proposals? Anyone?

                              Doubtful. It's too hard to tackle right? Too hard to explain why you get your iPhone X but the poor African children don't get that luxury because you blocked the production of coal and other fossil fuels to electrify their town.

                              You guys are so self-righteous its gross.
                              Si vis pacem, para bellum.

                              New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
                              Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
                              Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

                              79 Bronco SHTF Build

                              Comment


                                We just reached 414ppm co2, highest in 1m yr.

                                https://www.popsci.com/record-breaki...-graph-climate

                                Check out the "hockey stick" aka vertical line at the industrial revolution....
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