Global Warming is over.

[parkerbink]

and this is exactly why it's impossible to have any conversation with you about this subject.

No, it is because out of numerous paragraphs, all you see is that one.


Thanks for verifying you are stuck in your bubble.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

[ForcedFirebird]

Troll? meh. Only to those that have little basis for a rebuttal other than calling names and unable to see a different point of view.

Maybe I'm older than a lot of you (probably). Maybe I've seen all this before and you haven't. I'm not saying I am right, I may not be. But the pro AGW argument is full of holes, and anyone that argues settled science knows nothing about science.

Apologies if "troll" was harsh. Wasn't meant to be a personal attack.


"Old" is a frame of mind, and some of us "whipper-snappers" may have old souls. lol

This is a P&R section of a car forum, I really hope no one in here takes any of the rest of us too seriously. Water on a duck's back...

[ForcedFirebird]

Nowhere have I stated the planet is not warming and pollution is a good thing (CO2 is not a pollutant). None of you know me personally, and if you did you'd see I'm probably more environmentally oriented than most on this blog.

Nowhere is there any scientific proof that shows CO2 is the driver of AGW. I am not saying CO2 is not a greenhouse gas. All we have are studies and models that hypothesize CO2 as the culprit, but there are peer review studies showing CO2 lagging a warming climate.

Well, let's take the planet Venus, it's a great example of co2 and effects of a rocky surface. To say "co2 is not a pollutant" is subjective. To us humans, it most certainly IS a pollutant. If it were to get out of hand, we will smother, along with most other inhabitants on this planet that breathe oxygen.



Sure, the climate has and was warming since the last major glacial recession, but OTOH, it's a different thing to say anthropological influence is not a factor.

[cale]

Nowhere is there any scientific proof that shows CO2 is the driver of AGW.

None huh? You're fine to disagree with the evidence, you don't get to assert there is none.

But the pro AGW argument is full of holes, and anyone that argues settled science knows nothing about science.

The only people using the term settled when it comes to climate science are deniers proclaiming it isn't settled, a claim no one is making. Keep building up that strawman to knock it down.

[mrsleeve]

Well, let's take the planet Venus, it's a great example of co2 and effects of a rocky surface. To say "co2 is not a pollutant" is subjective. To us humans, it most certainly IS a pollutant. If it were to get out of hand, we will smother, along with most other inhabitants on this planet that breathe oxygen.

Durring the Great age of the roaming reptiles CO2 concentrations were much much higher.... You know what likes CO2 PLANTS, you know what we need to make the O2 we breath PLANTS. You ever seen a Tomato Plant grown at CO2 concentrations from the Jurassic Age.... The fruit is the size of your head and absolutely wonderful to eat....

To say that life on this rock will be wiped out by a rise in CO2 or sea levels, or even by a warmer climate is asinine. 99% of the species that have ever lived here are EXTINCT now, and this is the fate of humanity as well, mother nature has been trying to eradicate us since the get go, to make room for the next great evolution of life on this rock....

Your right to the human species prolific continuation of existence on this ball of dirt, yes CO2 might pose a small issue, we have bigger issues to contend with than CO2.

Sure, the climate has and was warming since the last major glacial recession, but OTOH, it's a different thing to say anthropological influence is not a factor.

Besides I think we have more issues with the deforestation and elimination of Green shit that likes all that CO2 for our convenience like parking lots, houses, roads, walmarts and what not. With the loss of Millions of acres of green stuff every year world wide what do you think the balance of CO2 is going to do.......

We are masters of our environment, its why we are where we are as a species..... That said, there is far more to it, than just emmisons, from our activity. This ball of dirt is not going to become Venus, with out massive Volcanic activity to release hundreds of trillions of tons of CO2 and METHANE

[ForcedFirebird]

Sleeve, as I was reading the beginning paragraph, already was thinking about how little forest are left.

Humans are contributing to all of it. Was going to an extreme using Venus, just saying there's an example of huge amounts of greenhouse gasses and we can see what happens.

http://www.biocab.org/Carbon_Dioxide_Geological_Timescale.html

In prehistoric times, during the Permian, in the Palaeozoic Era, for example, the concentration of Carbon Dioxide dropped below 210 ppmV. Throughout the Permian Period plant and animal species diverged and diversified as never before. Dinosaurs prospered and predominated over all the other orders of vertebrates. Coniferous plants first appeared in the Permian. The change of atmospheric temperature at the time of the Permian was around 10 °C. By comparison, the current change of global temperature is only 0.52 °C while the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide is 385 ppmV. If the global temperature is dependent on CO2, then the change of temperature at present would be around 10 °C or higher, as it was during the Permian Period.

Sure, there have been times during the era's that had more co2 than we do now, but if you extrapolate the current increase, we will see 500ppm within our lifetimes, and 1000ppm within 1-2 generations or so. It only takes 2500ppm to kill insects. Not to mention, were humans around last time the atmosphere had those high levels?

[mrsleeve]

^

the Permian era IIRC predated the big 3 reptile Eras.... During the Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous, lots of geologic plates moving around as land mass broke up into the continents we know today. thats lots of Volcanic activity making way way more CO2 than the planet and WE make today. CO2 Levels though those 3 ages of Reptiles and huge herbivores eating HUGE plants, had CO2 levels at about 5 times of what we have today.....

Could CO2 be an issue for us Mammals sure but concentrations are going to have to exploded and dont forget the green house effect is inversely proportional to rise in concentration when it comes to CO2, (in other words to double the green house effect you need to increase concentration by 4 times). Even if we disappear something will be flourishing here, until the earths core solidifies and the solar wind strips the bulk of the atmosphere and it becomes more like mars than Venus.....

[cale]

Durring the Great age of the roaming reptiles CO2 concentrations were much much higher.... You know what likes CO2 PLANTS, you know what we need to make the O2 we breath PLANTS. You ever seen a Tomato Plant grown at CO2 concentrations from the Jurassic Age.... The fruit is the size of your head and absolutely wonderful to eat....

To say that life on this rock will be wiped out by a rise in CO2 or sea levels, or even by a warmer climate is asinine. 99% of the species that have ever lived here are EXTINCT now, and this is the fate of humanity as well, mother nature has been trying to eradicate us since the get go, to make room for the next great evolution of life on this rock....

Your right to the human species prolific continuation of existence on this ball of dirt, yes CO2 might pose a small issue, we have bigger issues to contend with than CO2.

Way to completely misrepresent the arguments made by AGW and the potential results if we carry on this path. No one is suggesting the Earth cannot withstand an increase of Co2, nor do they deny that concentrations have been significantly higher in the past. You're being completely dishonest in ignoring the single biggest element at play here, time. Species simply do not successfully adapt to major shifts in climate over short periods of time. Any other time throughout history that such rapid shifts in atmospheric composition have occurred have been the result of natural disaster on a global scale, so stop trying to play this off as natural. You're either doing so because you're being dishonest, or you're genuinely ignorant.

[cheffy30]

let it go... the earth will be here for 5 billion more years or until the sun burns out and becomes a red giant consuming our orbit... the 2.3 million e30's will molten

this is a great read to provoke thought... http://www.worldwithoutus.com/about_book.html

[mrsleeve]

Way to completely misrepresent the arguments made by AGW and the potential results if we carry on this path. No one is suggesting the Earth cannot withstand an increase of Co2, nor do they deny that concentrations have been significantly higher in the past. You're being completely dishonest in ignoring the single biggest element at play here, time. Species simply do not successfully adapt to major shifts in climate over short periods of time. Any other time throughout history that such rapid shifts in atmospheric composition have occurred have been the result of natural disaster on a global scale, so stop trying to play this off as natural. You're either doing so because you're being dishonest, or you're genuinely ignorant.

Here is where I differ from almost everyone on these topics, I dont consider us any different than any other apex critter thats inhabited this planet, Yes we have built civilizations, mastered physics and gone to the moon, and all kinds of other great things. In that regard we are different That said we are still just another species that is doomed to extinction at some point mother nature will find a way virus, Big rock from space, or we will do it to our selves with resource depletion, or Nukes or what ever. We will be gone so something else will rise in our place.....

[parkerbink]

Here is where I differ from almost everyone on these topics, I dont consider us any different than any other apex critter thats inhabited this planet, Yes we have built civilizations, mastered physics and gone to the moon, and all kinds of other great things. In that regard we are different That said we are still just another species that is doomed to extinction at some point mother nature will find a way virus, Big rock from space, or we will do it to our selves with resource depletion, or Nukes or what ever. We will be gone so something else will rise in our place.....

Are you saying dinosaurs knew extinction was coming and just said whatever?

I agree humans can be stupid but I like to think we are not so dumb as to just say whatever to circumstances that are resolvable that could lead to our inability to survive.

[cale]

Here is where I differ from almost everyone on these topics, I dont consider us any different than any other apex critter thats inhabited this planet, Yes we have built civilizations, mastered physics and gone to the moon, and all kinds of other great things. In that regard we are different That said we are still just another species that is doomed to extinction at some point mother nature will find a way virus, Big rock from space, or we will do it to our selves with resource depletion, or Nukes or what ever. We will be gone so something else will rise in our place.....

So in essence you don't give a shit, that's fine, argue that point then. Don't argue that it's perfectly acceptable because it's happened before, because it hasn't happened like it currently has before.

[z31maniac]

Here is where I differ from almost everyone on these topics, I dont consider us any different than any other apex critter thats inhabited this planet, Yes we have built civilizations, mastered physics and gone to the moon, and all kinds of other great things. In that regard we are different That said we are still just another species that is doomed to extinction at some point mother nature will find a way virus, Big rock from space, or we will do it to our selves with resource depletion, or Nukes or what ever. We will be gone so something else will rise in our place.....

I didn't realize the dinosaurs burned fossil fuels and deforested a large part of the planet.

Thanks for the insight.

[parkerbink]

I didn't realize the dinosaurs burned fossil fuels and deforested a large part of the planet.

Thanks for the insight.

Shit! How did I miss that component of the revelation???

sad

[mrsleeve]

I didn't realize the dinosaurs burned fossil fuels and deforested a large part of the planet.

Thanks for the insight.

That was not the point or a even a correlation, and you know it, stop being so purposefully obtuse.

Edit: Both of you