Obama has gotten his healthcare and amnesty.... whats next?

[joshh]

I see facts are lost on you.....

The majority of Finns live as squatters? Right. It is such a huge problem that typing "Finnish squatters" into Google gets no relevant result until the second page-where there is even a mention of one isolated incident, and then nothing more. Boy they must be keeping a lid on it over there! hahahaha





Are we not all burdened by taxes for life already? And if you've paid, then it's not a freebie, is it?

Your solution is to saddle 'em early with lots of debt and indenture them for the rest of their life, and that, is barbaric! These guys will love it! They are already partnering with governments to lock up people who owe relatively small amounts of money. Never mind it actually costs the taxpayers more to process these small-time debtors and collect the money than the usual size of the debt (<$1000 in most cases), the CCA says they are only profitable if the prisons are over 90% full. So this is a way to keep those beds full to the tune of $200 a night charged to the taxpayers! Further proof of idiotic barbarism.

What is this "opportunity" you speak of? The good money is held by but a few, and if you still think we are "free" then read the Patriot Act, and try to understand the 3.7 million words that are the current tax code. You cannot own a house-that modern delusion of a man and his castle. You may think you can, but miss a few property tax payments and you won't own it anymore....but don't worry: the CCA has your cell ready.

I was referring to Norway first of all and if you'd done any research at all you'd know while Norwegians make good money the cost of living is extremely high and rent is fucking killer if you live in the city. Can you say class warfare....typical Socialism.

My solution gives them a choice to get out of debt if they put their nose to the grindstone and be free men (if they even chose to go to college at all). Your solution keeps them paying ridiculous amounts of taxes for the rest of their fucking lives. Your solution is exactly what you're complaining about. And if you're keeping track, I'm not using our current fucked up near Socialistic system as a good example of what to do.

[mar1t1me]

I was referring to Norway first of all and if you'd done any research at all you'd know while Norwegians make good money the cost of living is extremely high and rent is fucking killer if you live in the city. Can you say class warfare....typical Socialism.

My mistake. I typed Norway by mistake. I meant Finland. Although I have spent a year in Norway. No, it's not a perfect society, but I'll tell you what: their cops are, for the most part, extremely professional, and make US cops look like thugs.

And, even if rent is high, if you make enough bread to pay it, don't have to worry about a single illness wiping you out financially, public transit is top notch, and they have the highest standard of living in the world, then what's the problem? It is apparently working for them....

My solution gives them a choice to get out of debt if they put their nose to the grindstone and be free men

What does that even mean? What is your definition of a free man in current America? Freedom in this country is an illusion. It doesn't exist.

Your solution keeps them paying ridiculous amounts of taxes for the rest of their fucking lives.

Semantics. My health care goes up 15-20% a year. The product hasn't changed, it just costs more of my income, which is not rising 15-20% a year. It's a tax by another name. Everything in my life costs more, except for the plastic Chinese crap at Walmart.

And if you're keeping track, I'm not using our current fucked up near Socialistic system as a good example of what to do.

We do not live under a society anywhere remotely near socialism. The power of the 1% bares that truth. Much closer to a semi-fascist Oligarchy.

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.

Franklin Roosevelt, 1936

—

[Dozyproductions]

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.

Franklin Roosevelt, 1936

—

A fellow who was in the 'nwo'. ;)

[mrsleeve]

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.

Franklin Roosevelt, 1936

—

I see your patron saint of progressivism with a true father of the nation

God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. - Thomas Jefferson


I dont think I need to make my point any more clear than mr Jefferson has over 220 years ago.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Inb4t.jefferson is not a credible quote source...

[gwb72tii]

I see your patron saint of progressivism with a true father of the nation

God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. - Thomas Jefferson


I dont think I need to make my point any more clear than mr Jefferson has over 220 years ago.

i never cease to be amazed by the forefather's insights and wisdom and how they've stood the test of time. They are as right today as they were when the were originally thought/said/written.

[herbivor]

i never cease to be amazed by the forefather's insights and wisdom and how they've stood the test of time. They are as right today as they were when the were originally thought/said/written.

Only if the specific quotes you read agree with your point of view at the time. The truth is we will never know their minds. We are only reading the dust they left behind. There is a lot of stuff that the founding fathers said and did that would be considered too liberal/ progressive by your standards. Have you ever thought for a moment that perhaps what was said and thought then does not necessarily apply universally for today's circumstances?
Thomas Jefferson, your messiah, certainly did.

"The idea that institutions established for the use of the nation cannot be touched nor modified even to make them answer their end because of rights gratuitously supposed in those employed to manage them in trust for the public, may perhaps be a salutary provision against the abuses of a monarch but is most absurd against the nation itself. Yet our lawyers and priests generally inculcate this doctrine and suppose that preceding generations held the earth more freely than we do, had a right to impose laws on us unalterable by ourselves, and that we in like manner can make laws and impose burdens on future generations which they will have no right to alter; in fine, that the earth belongs to the dead and not the living." --Thomas Jefferson

[evandael]

^yeah, that's a good idea, start "banning" people for asking questions and doubting a machine that's number one goal is self preservation.

Did you sing this same song when Cash for Clunkers destroyed all those cars that could have been used as partscars via junkyards?

The only reason the Government wants to increase the length of life is so that they can collect more revenue from more individuals.

HAhahahahahaha!

LBJ - No, the part displayed as the "core" of it is that, people are so tied up in what it is that they are not taking the time to see what it is going to do.

EDIT: Looks like sleeve covered it there.

Inb4t.jefferson is not a credible quote source...

are things slow over in BFE? i can't even begin to quote joshh or sleeve, on account of the sheer number of irrelevant rants they have contributed to this thread.


actually, it seems this whole thread is irrelevant. no surprise, considering it's typical vedubin01 drivel, with a weak and poorly identified argument that seems like its sole purpose is to be inflammatory and not informative.


on that note i may as well rant too. are you ultraconservatives the fools that go down with the ship? while the rest of us are trying to bail the water out before it gets too bad, it's apparent that you'd rather indignantly sit back and point fingers at anything that might have been the cause of the dilemma. iceberg! shipbuilder! water temperature! (un)shredded ammo casings!

[gwb72tii]

and what, you believe in the benevolence of the government?

[Farbin Kaiber]

on that note i may as well rant too. are you ultraconservatives the fools that go down with the ship? while the rest of us are trying to bail the water out before it gets too bad, it's apparent that you'd rather indignantly sit back and point fingers at anything that might have been the cause of the dilemma. iceberg! shipbuilder! water temperature! (un)shredded ammo casings!

No, but you are the guys poking holes in the ship because "it's already taking on water, and the water outside thinks it's not fair that it is separated from the water on the inside."

[evandael]

and what, you believe in the benevolence of the government?

No, but you are the guys poking holes in the ship because "it's already taking on water, and the water outside thinks it's not fair that it is separated from the water on the inside."

gwb.. i believe that government should serve its people, and people change over the course of two centuries. this ain't the colonies or the wild west anymore. the world is changing and so should the institution. or should we all baseless and lawless libertarians with no sort of structure to our communities? the government's sure out to get us, maaannnn.

farbin... that doesn't make any sense in the context of the analogy. actually, maybe it does. let me explain it to you; when a ship is sinking, there are a myriad of causes, but the all result in the main problem: it's taking on water. what progressive politics attempts to do is solve the causes to stop the problem from growing. it is now obvious that what you'd rather do is sit and make a farce out of any sort of solution and just expect the water to recede on it's own damn accord.

[estorilduck]

No, but you are the guys poking holes in the ship because "it's already taking on water, and the water outside thinks it's not fair that it is separated from the water on the inside."

Welp better throw the poors overboard!

[joshh]

are things slow over in BFE? i can't even begin to quote joshh or sleeve, on account of the sheer number of irrelevant rants they have contributed to this thread.


actually, it seems this whole thread is irrelevant. no surprise, considering it's typical vedubin01 drivel, with a weak and poorly identified argument that seems like its sole purpose is to be inflammatory and not informative.


on that note i may as well rant too. are you ultraconservatives the fools that go down with the ship? while the rest of us are trying to bail the water out before it gets too bad, it's apparent that you'd rather indignantly sit back and point fingers at anything that might have been the cause of the dilemma. iceberg! shipbuilder! water temperature! (un)shredded ammo casings!

Down with what ship? This country is anything but conservative. Oh no wonder it's going down....lol. The further left it goes the faster it sinks...great point!

[Morrison]

Down with what ship? This country is anything but conservative. Oh no wonder it's going down....lol. The further left it goes the faster it sinks...great point!

Would your consider Alan Greenspan a conservative? Considering his strong belief in a "hands-off" approach to the markets, support for privatization of social security, and his support for tax cuts, it would be hard to paint him as a liberal. He was no doubt successful during his career as a private financial consultant and subsequent 30+ years in office serving as economic advisor for Gerald Ford, and as Chairman of the Federal reserve for Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II. Despite warnings from Brooksly Born as early as 1998 that the derivatives market should have regulations and reporting requirements to prevent a volitile collapse of the whole system, putting the American people's money at risk, Alan Greenspan continued to push for a "hands off" approach to the derivatives market.

What this illustrates is a liberal trying her damndest to warn a conservative that something better be done actively to prevent catastrophe.

At least Grennspan was able to come out and admit that he had been wrong, after witnessing the 2008 collapse.

The subesquent Dodd-Frank bill, named after the two democratic congressmen who wrote it, is an attempt to prevent the ship from taking on water again in the future. You'd rather have blind religious faith that the ship won't sink again? I'd prefer concrete proactive solutions.

Are you seriously delusional enough to think that in just 3.5 years Obama has been able to turn this country that far off the course of conservatism that the architect of America's economy had put us on for over 30 years?

[gwb72tii]

i don't think anybody has argued where we are today is a result of the past 3.5yrs, or 10yrs or 20yrs for that matter. its been building critical mass since teddy roosevelt.

derivatives weren't the root cause of the last recession/housing/deflationary bust.