When CCW saves peoples lives thread.

[Rsully70sev]

Eh, I support CCW licenses but I don't think I'd ever have to personally put it to use. So I'm pretty neutral in this debate, I don't care either way.

And I'm not a liberal hippie, I have a:

Glock 19
Glock 40
Stag Arms M4
Springfield M1A Socom II

I just don't feel threatened enough where I live to have the need to carry a gun. Mine are just for recreation and home protection. If I get robbed in an ally, fuck it take my money. If that Colorado shit happens, you're pretty fucked either way.

[Vedubin01]

and I agree, I was just saying so this tread does not get off track.

If anything it should be judged off "intent". The shooter with the wallet/gun incident, it was not his "intent" to use his firearm to injure himself or the others.

It was the "intent" of the Colorado shooter to use his weapon to cause innocent harm.

The guy in Cape Coral should hang for his actions!

[Bill 84 318i]

I have not problem showing both sides. Im not talking about the ones that injure ones self, but like the story in FL where a guy CCW shoots the other for being on his property. And those that actually use the CCW to stop a situation.

So please keep it apples to apples. Sadly like stated before, it is harder to find stories where they save life. Because its not what the Media likes to show.

Never said you did (okay, I may have, but not in this thread :-P).

But the people in those stories - one injured more than "ones self" by accident, and the other killed someone on his property because he was a moron.

I think it's all apples, at this point. If you can have a gun and shit like this happens - fruit type doesn't matter.

Look, I'm not anti-gun. I'm pretty "liberal" (dictionary definition, not public) on this one. What I think is worth pointing out is that most people - myself included - say "people legally entitled to carry aren't the criminals". What Charlie just pointed out were two examples of the opposite that happened this week - and that's worth discussing. That's all.

[Vedubin01]

The guy was already outside the business on the fucking ground fleeing and the old man was still shooting, looking to kill those guys. That's taking it too far IMO. And you're right, they got what they deserved...solely because gramp's is a terrible shot and can't hit someone directly in front of him.

They were hit, just the caliber of use is shitty! People use the 380 due to size and weight. But in my personal opinion not worth a shit unless you are just a great marksman with a lucky shot!

As to shooting them out the door. FUCK Them! A bit bad form to shoot someone in the back, but again Fuck them!

[cale]

just watched the vid myself, and I have a different reaction. That 71 year old is one BAMF. the perps got exactly what they deserved, the crap scared out of them, then arrested.

I don't see where you are saying that the dude was shooting at the perp while he was face down on the ground. I saw him fall, and then scramble back up before the old man appeared. Then the one perp plowed the other one over trying to get out the door, and the old dude shot after them. I don't think he hit them once, but I didn't read the whole article.

I think the reason the 71 year old jumped up and started shooting like that so "eagerly" is because if he didn't, but warned and threatened first, it could have been a shootout, rather than the old guy simply running them out of the store, before either perp realized what had just happened.

The guy was already outside the business on the fucking ground fleeing and the old man was still shooting, looking to kill those guys. That's taking it too far IMO. And you're right, they got what they deserved...solely because gramp's is a terrible shot and can't hit someone directly in front of him.

Like I said, it's an opinion. I guess I will give more value to an individuals life despite the fact of their wrongdoing than some. You do have to admit though, him firing at someone who's no longer posing a direct threat or even being inside the building with him would be an entirely different matter in other states would it not? There's reason for that, it's questionable behavior.

[Vedubin01]

Thanks for posting that stuff, Charlie; those things just happened this week. It's worth seeing the "other other" side.

I have not problem showing both sides. Im not talking about the ones that injure ones self, but like the story in FL where a guy CCW shoots the other for being on his property. And those that actually use the CCW to stop a situation.

So please keep it apples to apples. Sadly like stated before, it is harder to find stories where they save life. Because its not what the Media likes to show.

[Bill 84 318i]

Thanks for posting that stuff, Charlie; those things just happened this week. It's worth seeing the "other other" side.

[Vedubin01]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/2...n-my-property/

52 year old CCW holder successfully defends himself against an unarmed guy selling Omaha steaks. Shoots him once, and then a second time in the head when he's on the ground.

Yep.

-Charlie

I read this story just after I started this thread. Florida of all places.


Maybe its a good way to clean up the gene pool a bit. Because there is a lot of Stupid in this country!

[Charlie]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/26/florida-man-kills-door-to-door-salesman-i%E2%80%99ll-kill-anybody-that-steps-on-my-property/

52 year old CCW holder successfully defends himself against an unarmed guy selling Omaha steaks. Shoots him once, and then a second time in the head when he's on the ground.

Yep.

-Charlie

[mrsleeve]

I carry Sig 220 (mostly) with one in the hole and there is NO external safety to worry about DA/SA, Also carry my little LCP with one on the hole. There is no point to carrying a weapon with out one in the hole, thats how people end up giving their weapon to their attacker.

[iamsam]

When I did the classes for my CCW, I would say I was scared that 90% of the people in the class owned a gun. I wouldn't have trusted the trigger discipline of a single person in there.

I know 3 people know that have fucking shot themselves accidently after getting their CCW and tiny little concealed carry piece. The level of "competant" people getting these is pretty low.

-Charlie

right, there are a ton of people out there I don't trust, that's for sure. But usually, the only people they hurt are themselves, as opposed to the crazed killer orchestrating a pre-meditated attack.

As for me, I will be carrying a Glock, un-chambered, and even if it was chambered, it would never misfire.

I carry my HK with one in the chamber and cocked and locked. In order to fire it, your must release the safety, you also have the longer pull of double action for the first shot.

I would venture to say that a lot of the accidential shootings could be avoided by keeping the finger frame side until you are at ready.

right, if a bullet is chambered, but the firing pin is un-loaded, it is very hard to accidentally fire.

[der affe]

That dude is an idiot, and doesn't deserve a CCW permit. Unfortunately, it's hard to ensure that 100% of the time you are handing out CCWs to competent people.

you never ever pack your gun chambered unless it's a Glock, then it will never accidentally discharge.

I carry my HK with one in the chamber and cocked and locked. In order to fire it, your must release the safety, you also have the longer pull of double action for the first shot.

I would venture to say that a lot of the accidential shootings could be avoided by keeping the finger frame side until you are at ready.

[Charlie]

That dude is an idiot, and doesn't deserve a CCW permit. Unfortunately, it's hard to ensure that 100% of the time you are handing out CCWs to competent people.

you never ever pack your gun chambered unless it's a Glock, then it will never accidentally discharge.

When I did the classes for my CCW, I would say I was scared that 90% of the people in the class owned a gun. I wouldn't have trusted the trigger discipline of a single person in there.

I know 3 people know that have fucking shot themselves accidently after getting their CCW and tiny little concealed carry piece. The level of "competant" people getting these is pretty low.

-Charlie

[iamsam]

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/07/24/t...llas-wal-mart/

CCW holder. Reaches for his wallet, grabs his gun instead, pulls the trigger, injures 3, books it the fuck out of the store.

What's the line about "police your own"?

-Charlie

That dude is an idiot, and doesn't deserve a CCW permit. Unfortunately, it's hard to ensure that 100% of the time you are handing out CCWs to competent people.

you never ever pack your gun chambered unless it's a Glock, then it will never accidentally discharge.

[Charlie]

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/07/24/three-wounded-as-gun-discharges-inside-dallas-wal-mart/

CCW holder. Reaches for his wallet, grabs his gun instead, pulls the trigger, injures 3, books it the fuck out of the store.

What's the line about "police your own"?

-Charlie