Veganism: Is it morally wrong to eat/kill animals?

[klavender1]

Having skipped over all 11 pages, I just have one thing to say:
If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat! :D

[streetwaves]

right right right, so all of my sources were completely wrong and insane, but no one can provide sources that eating meat is healthier (or healthy), or morally correct. hypocrisy in this thread was not contributed by me.

and, of course none of you actually followed any of my links anyway. so here I'll go ahead and post the links to the scientific journals about health. the science is in here about health, which you all were attacking-- saying that it's healthier to eat meat. However none of you have been able to produce any information supporting the claim, other than pictures of bacon.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/arti...icleid=1134845
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/122/9/876

http://www.scribd.com/doc/94656/The-Comparative-Anatomy-of-Eating

want me to pull more? not like it'll matter. none of you will read them anyway.

Imbecile.

The onus is on you to prove that vegans are healthier and longer-living than the world's healthiest meat eaters. It's a well-known fact that diets higher in plant foods and lower in meat are healthiest. There is no reason to believe that a vegan diet is healthier than a well-balanced omnivorous diet.

It may very well be that meat is healthiest kept at 10% of your diet, but that doesn't mean meat is unhealthy. The fact that a diet comprised of 90% of rice, or 90% lettuce, or 90% almonds is unhealthy does not make those foods unhealthy; it means you're eating like an idiot.

The fact is, there is an extremely limited amount of information on the life expectancies of life-long vegans. So if you've just got some new information in, it's your job to share it with us and prove that vegans are the longest lived folks on Earth. For now, the reigning champions are a people that eat lots of vegetables and a little meat.

One of the most commonly cited reasons is that of health, based on findings that red meat is detrimental to health in many cases due to non-lean red meats containing high amounts of saturated fats.[2][3] Eating certain kinds of fish raises HDL levels,[4][5] and some fish are a convenient source of omega-3 fatty acids,[6] and have numerous health benefits in one food variety.[7] A 1999 meta-study of five studies comparing vegetarian and non-vegetarian mortality rates in Western countries found that in comparison with regular meat eaters, mortality from ischemic heart disease was 34% lower in pescetarians, 34% lower in ovo-lacto vegetarians, 26% lower in vegans and 20% lower in occasional meat eaters.[8]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479225

[cale]

right right right, so all of my sources were completely wrong and insane, but no one can provide sources that eating meat is healthier (or healthy), or morally correct.

So you're expecting a source to prove that eating meat is morally justifiable? Holy shit you're ignorant and biased.

[Buzztt]

its the hypocritical ones that annoy me, they wont eat meat but they are fine wearing leather shoes or wearing products tested on animals

its fine having a poor little bunny being kept in a tiny cage having shit squirted in his eyes that burns and blinds him just so someone can smell nice but having him humanely killed and then eaten is just plain wrong

[CorvallisBMW]

Well this is interesting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20354669

"The strongest argument that meat is not essential food is the fact that the Creator of this Universe did not include meat in the original diet for Adam and Eve. He gave them fruits, nuts and vegetables," reads a chapter entitled Do We Need Flesh Food?

The chapter details the "benefits" of a vegetarian diet and goes on to list "some of the characteristics" found among non-vegetarians.

"They easily cheat, tell lies, forget promises, they are dishonest and tell bad words, steal, fight and turn to violence and commit sex crimes," it says.

The chapter, full of factual inaccuracies, refers to Eskimos (Inuit) as "lazy, sluggish and short-lived", because they live on "a diet largely of meat".

It adds: "The Arabs who helped in constructing the Suez Canal lived on wheat and dates and were superior to the beef-fed Englishmen engaged in the same work."

[squidmaster]

Look at where 99.99999% of you get your meat from, too.

http://www.farmsanctuary.org/learn/factory-farming/

and, whoa, like taco bell totally has vegetables and rice and legumes like everywhere. grab literally anything on the menu without cheese, and you can substitute any of the meats for refried beans or black beans. so eating at taco bell =/= eating meat.

[squidmaster]

right right right, so all of my sources were completely wrong and insane, but no one can provide sources that eating meat is healthier (or healthy), or morally correct. hypocrisy in this thread was not contributed by me.

and, of course none of you actually followed any of my links anyway. so here I'll go ahead and post the links to the scientific journals about health. the science is in here about health, which you all were attacking-- saying that it's healthier to eat meat. However none of you have been able to produce any information supporting the claim, other than pictures of bacon.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/arti...icleid=1134845
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/122/9/876

http://www.scribd.com/doc/94656/The-Comparative-Anatomy-of-Eating

want me to pull more? not like it'll matter. none of you will read them anyway.

[uofom3]

I know this is a hotly debated subject, but it's one I'm interested in. What are your thoughts?

What is the difference morally between killing a person or an animal? Given that animals feel pain, does that make a difference?

For the record, I am not a vegan/vegetarian. But I think it's a difficult question to answer definitively to say the least.

No, it's not. If it were, you wouldn't be here.

[RobertK]

RobertK, wouldn't you say its not a moral thing but a preference?

Yup.. cept the way they farm animals these days is pretty fucked up not to mention nasty.

I don't get butthurt over people eating meat. To me its no different than smoking or worshipping scientology. Shoving your beliefs in the face of someone who chooses to be different than you just makes you look that much more insecure.

Nutrition is common sense once you understand what your body really needs to live a healthy life. The human body is pretty resilient and will take years of abuse before it breaks down. Some more than others. I try my best to balance out the good and the bad while learning to enjoy the benefits of both.

Buffalo Wild Wings is where I sin the most. Fogive me Jebus.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Any opinions on the Expensive Tissue Hypothesis???

[dreamchasin]

I like chicken

[Massimo]

the industrial meat industry is, in my lax vegetarian (but not vegan) opinion, morally wrong.


if you can hunt down an animal, trap it, and kill it with your bare hands or an improvised weapon (not a gun, not a compound bow), then you are morally clear and can claim your place in the 'circle of life', an argument made previously. if you raise a hog or a cow or a chicken from its birth, care for it, and you are the one to slit its throat, drain the blood, and butcher it, then by all means, chow down.


going to Mickey D's or the supermarket ground beef aisle does not constitute a morally justified or natural means of consuming another life form. it is too far removed from the eat-or-be-eaten circle of life.

I agree but I do not practice this, Ignorance is bliss I supose.

It is true that we are way to disconnected or removed from the killing of the animals

[CorvallisBMW]

Wow, 10 pages in a day? This one's a humdinger

[ravenlord89]

Extremeists makes any opinion thread worth reading. LOL at sources that offer biased opinions on the subject. No article posted from a scientific journal or peer reviewed journal, and most of the links were from vegan websites. It is like posting quotes from the bible to prove the bible right. Sorry, that doesn'y fly with educated people.

Life is too short to get wrapped up in whether eating something is right or wrong. If it tastes good dig in and enjoy. I personally love food. Whether it is a big spinnach salad, or a blue steak I enjoy the food.

[streetwaves]

Nope. Just like I don't think that about produce. From that angle, if you didn't pluck it from the plant, you shouldnt eat it. There are so many people that don't know what the plants theory food grows on looks like. I think this is a two way street if you try to drive down it the way you speak of.

You could use the unnatural argument to condemn plenty of things in modern society. However, I do agree that factory farming has some obvious moral problems. Although I do not find it morally wrong to kill certain animals as painlessly as possible for the purpose of human consumption, there's something about raising an animal in a dark pen and literally making its life hell that doesn't seem defensible.

Regardless of whether it's acceptable or natural to kill an animal and eat it, I think 99% of people would agree that animals are more than mere objects and deserved to be treated in a way that respects that.