Veganism: Is it morally wrong to eat/kill animals?

[squidmaster]

everything with a grain of salt.

"Carol Koprowski, a professor of preventive medicine at USC's Keck School of Medicine who wasn't involved in the research, cautioned that it can be hard to draw specific conclusions from a study like this because there can be a lot of error in the way diet information is recorded in food frequency questionnaires, which ask subjects to remember past meals in sometimes grueling detail."

it's not perfect, but the evidence from every single other study shows similar results.

That's what's so funny about it. Even the American Indian was very healthy. Guess what, they ate meat. It's lunacy. You've chosen a path based on opinion not fact for what's "morally right". Not even what's more or less healthy.
Morality is subjective....lol.

they were very healthy? maybe because their diet mostly consisted of beans, corn, grains, and squash with smaller portions of meat that they had to actively hunt for, not plop in front of The View and scarf down a egg sausage mcbiscuit or whatever.

[Kershaw]

That was a really good read. It really challenged my current practices and I have no real arguments against it except that I enjoy eating meat. But, I'm sure rapists enjoy raping and that doesn't make it any less wrong.

Hmmm.... This has given me much to think about.

[future rs]

I didn't perpetuate the sale of leather. I didn't contribute to the killing of that animal. I bought a second hand item at a lower cost to me and the planet than buying a new car.

please explain to me how your ignorant scapegoating is a great idea? explain to me how you're correct and I'm wrong rather than just saying "you're wrong because bacon!"

ignorant to how you live your life? you mean I don't know how or why you eat meat? that's dumb. that's really dumb. it's obvious that your argument is just automated self defense because you're too afraid to look at your life choices constructively.

HAHA everything out of you mouth is speculation!!!! Do you know my diet? what did I eat for dinner last night?

And when did I say anything even remotely as ignorant as "your wrong because bacon"

Automated self defense? I am not defending being a carnivore. I am defending ignorant scientifically lacking evidence. Almost all of your articles lack any true evidence other than bullshit graphs comparing similarities. You do realize that we as a race are still very different from any of the herbavores in your graphs?

Here is a great one. Some birds are considered omnivorous. Yet they don't share a single characteristic with your fancy graphs? Those articles are completely based on speculation. Also pigs have a very developed salivary gland and yet are considered opportunistic eaters and omnivores. Just like humans.

So please stop with the morality and other bullshit about me trying to justify my eating habits. LOL you know nothing about my diet or how I source my food or anything of the sort. And if your going to say that I am "ingorantly scapegoating" please provide factual evidence based in science and not some article written by an unreliable source.

[squidmaster]

You are fucking retarded. The whole point is that you said any amount greatly increases risk of death. The Okinawans eat a plant-based diet with small amount of meat... like I do.

The point again is that too much meat is bad, just like too much anything is bad. God damn you're an imbecile.

Show me proof that pure vegans live longer than the Okinawans elders and you'll have a point.

you can't even read what I wrote and understand it. I don't think that continuing our conversation will get anywhere but you getting angrier that you can't understand things.

squidbrain, do you also not drive cars? what about plastic (petroleum based) products? Do you use those? You must be on a computer made of wood right now I guess...

wow I've already talked about this so I could either continue quoting myself or you could just go read the rest of the thread.

[iamsam]

You are fucking retarded. God damn you're an imbecile

Hey squid, look what you did, you just pissed off probably the closest ally you may have had on R3V...

[iamsam]

wow I've already talked about this so I could either continue quoting myself or you could just go read the rest of the thread.

so you are on a wooden computer?

All this has made me crave some chicken. I think i'll go to some establishment and find me some for lunch.

Also, squid, you are probably the most self-righteous condescending selfish holier-than-thou person I have ever seen (read?)

[squidmaster]

HAHA everything out of you mouth is speculation!!!! Do you know my diet? what did I eat for dinner last night?

And when did I say anything even remotely as ignorant as "your wrong because bacon"

Automated self defense? I am not defending being a carnivore. I am defending ignorant scientifically lacking evidence. Almost all of your articles lack any true evidence other than bullshit graphs comparing similarities. You do realize that we as a race are still very different from any of the herbavores in your graphs?

Here is a great one. Some birds are considered omnivorous. Yet they don't share a single characteristic with your fancy graphs? Those articles are completely based on speculation. Also pigs have a very developed salivary gland and yet are considered opportunistic eaters and omnivores. Just like humans.

So please stop with the morality and other bullshit about me trying to justify my eating habits. LOL you know nothing about my diet or how I source my food or anything of the sort. And if your going to say that I am "ingorantly scapegoating" please provide factual evidence based in science and not some article written by an unreliable source.

what? coming from someone that has provided 0 articles, evidence, facts, or anything else other than your personal opinion.
the birds argument is null. another scapegoat.

you ARE trying to justify your eating habits as you already stated that you eat meat I believe. so I'm not "speculating" as to your diet. you TOLD ME your diet.

in fact that post is attempted justification in itself! lol

[Kershaw]

Insulting people is no way to win friends. Slow rational well thought out arguments usually do best.

Unless they just repeat their inane point over and over, then call them an idiot. But seriously, insulting people who are agreeing with you is not the best course of action.

[future rs]

"I didn't perpetuate the sale of leather. I didn't contribute to the killing of that animal. I bought a second hand item at a lower cost to me and the planet than buying a new car."

Way to justify your ignorant scapegoating. You couldn't find a second hand car that got better gas mileage? Or that wasn't made with animal bi-products? This right here is absolutely moronic, and you sir are a hypocrite.

[streetwaves]

you can't even read what I wrote and understand it. I don't think that continuing our conversation will get anywhere but you getting angrier that you can't understand things.

You said eating meat is unhealthy.

I said eating too MUCH meat is unhealthy.

You said eating any amount is very harmful to health.

I said show me proof that vegans live longer than Okinawans.

You ignored that and simply posted information I already knew because I've studied the diet of the Okinawan elders: they eat less meat and more plants. They're the longest-lived elders on Earth and are not vegans, and you haven't shown me anything to suggest vegans can live longer.

Honestly, you're mentally handicapped.

[squidmaster]

"Nearly a decade of extra life -- that's what you get when you move away from eating animal foods and toward a plant-based diet. This is really exciting science for anyone seeking healthy longevity (and who isn't?)!"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/plant-based-diet_b_1981838.html

"Vegetarians suffer fewer heart attacks than meat eaters.24-37 Interestingly, this benefit dissipates as vegetarians age. For instance, one study showed that vegetarians under the age of 65 were 45% less like to suffer a heart attack than were meat eaters. Once vegetarians reached the age of 80, however, their heart attack risk was only 8% lower than that of meat eaters.38


Longevity studies of vegetarians produce conflicting data. Some studies do not show that vegetarians live significantly longer.25,29 Two studies of people who consumed very little meat showed an average life-span increase of 3.6 years.39 A huge study of Seventh Day Adventists who ate little or no meat showed longevity increases of 7.28 years in men and 4.42 years in women.40 These data are confounded by the fact that Seventh Day Adventists follow healthy lifestyles free of tobacco and alcohol.

Studies suggest that the longevity benefits conferred by a vegetarian diet dissipate as humans enter their ninth decade.39 This implies that while vegetarian diets reduce disease risk, restricting one’s diet to only plant foods does not completely protect against the effects of aging."

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/jan2006_awsi_01.htm

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vegetarians-live-longer.html

honestly the science behind a diet alone affecting someone's life expectancy is rather "milky." there are far too many variables to take into consideration for life expectancy. the second article seems to be the least biased.

[future rs]

what? coming from someone that has provided 0 articles, evidence, facts, or anything else other than your personal opinion.
the birds argument is null. another scapegoat.

you ARE trying to justify your eating habits as you already stated that you eat meat I believe. so I'm not "speculating" as to your diet. you TOLD ME your diet.

in fact that post is attempted justification in itself! lol

lol that right there was speculation.

Only thing I have said in regards to my diet is that I am a believer in moderation. I didn't even specify weather that was in relation to meat or any other "food"

Oh and if this is about health. I love that you post topics about binge eating. Sounds healthy....


And I have provided plenty of evidence. In fact I pulled quotes from your articles. And I don't need to provide a scientific based reply to your unscientific articles based solely off of "speculation"

[squidmaster]

You said eating meat is unhealthy. It is. I provided articles and resources. Please prove me other wise.

I said eating too MUCH meat is unhealthy. Again.

You said eating any amount is very harmful to health. Again.

I said show me proof that vegans live longer than Okinawans. Okinawans were like robertK, 95% vegetarian. no milk. no beef. only pork on holidays and fish when available. so. uh. seems like an odd argument.

You ignored that and simply posted information I already knew because I've studied the diet of the Okinawan elders: they eat less meat and more plants. They're the longest-lived elders on Earth and are not vegans, and you haven't shown me anything to suggest vegans can live longer. If you knew that then we wouldn't be having this argument I feel.

Honestly, you're mentally handicapped. That's how us vegans feel about meat eaters.

honestly they don't live that much longer than the japanese. again, reiterating what I said before, life expectancy science is too milky to be exact.

http://www.okicent.org/

[bawlsdeep]

This is a pointless argument no one is ever going to agree so Why don't we stop pushing our diets on eachother

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[future rs]

"Nearly a decade of extra life -- that's what you get when you move away from eating animal foods and toward a plant-based diet. This is really exciting science for anyone seeking healthy longevity (and who isn't?)!"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/plant-based-diet_b_1981838.html

"Vegetarians suffer fewer heart attacks than meat eaters.24-37 Interestingly, this benefit dissipates as vegetarians age. For instance, one study showed that vegetarians under the age of 65 were 45% less like to suffer a heart attack than were meat eaters. Once vegetarians reached the age of 80, however, their heart attack risk was only 8% lower than that of meat eaters.38


Longevity studies of vegetarians produce conflicting data. Some studies do not show that vegetarians live significantly longer.25,29 Two studies of people who consumed very little meat showed an average life-span increase of 3.6 years.39 A huge study of Seventh Day Adventists who ate little or no meat showed longevity increases of 7.28 years in men and 4.42 years in women.40 These data are confounded by the fact that Seventh Day Adventists follow healthy lifestyles free of tobacco and alcohol.

Studies suggest that the longevity benefits conferred by a vegetarian diet dissipate as humans enter their ninth decade.39 This implies that while vegetarian diets reduce disease risk, restricting one’s diet to only plant foods does not completely protect against the effects of aging."

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/jan2006_awsi_01.htm

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vegetarians-live-longer.html

honestly the science behind a diet alone affecting someone's life expectancy is rather "milky." there are far too many variables to take into consideration for life expectancy. the second article seems to be the least biased.

So according to this and the articles postes

***spoiler alert**** I AM ABOUT TO REVEAL INFORMATION ON MY DIET***
With my very small meat consumption (which mostly consists of fish) I am probably just as healthy.

And please keep the morality out of this. You are just as bad as the religous fanatics telling me I am going to hell because I don't go to church.