Veganism: Is it morally wrong to eat/kill animals?

[CabbE30]

@cabriolet: NO SIR! I grew up on a farm. I raised animals. I slaughtered animals with my hands. My "neighbors" (more farms) did the same. It doesn't matter how well the animals was treated during its life, you're still murdering it for a superfluous personal gain.

What are you raising animals on a farm for if it's not for your own personal gain?

[dreamchasin]

My cousin that lives with us is vegan, I chase her around with a raw bloody steak all the time.

[squidmaster]

You are very selective in the posts you reply to.

which post would you like me to reply to? there are some that are just too rhetorical and uninformed

A personal gain like eating, oh the horror and morality.

Tell me what type of farm you grew up on.

you can eat plants.

small farm. less than 200 pheasants and at most a little more than a dozen mammals. the people next to us had a pretty large bovine farm though.

[squidmaster]

What are you raising animals on a farm for if it's not for your own personal gain?

that's exactly what it was. I don't live there any longer and I obviously abstain from all non-human animal products that I can.

[RobertK]

I like how omnivores get all butt hurt when someone says they are vegatarian or vegan like they take it personally.. Much like how Christians get when someone says they are agnostic or athiest.

You will always have a hard time looking at anything thing objectively if you validate your paradigm / belief systems thinking that everyone in the world should be (or is) like you.

I was straight Vegan for 2 years.. I never told people until they acted insulted when I didn't partake in eating meat with them during a meal and much like how omnivores claim Vegans "always let you know" most red meat eating Americans are just the same if not worse. I can't count the number of times I heard someone say "well I can't live off that froo froo vegtable bullshit" when they see that I'm not eating meat. No different than a Christian telling me that I'm going to hell in thier own passive aggressive way.

That said.. addressing the original topic:

1. I don't have a problem with animals being killed for consumption. Its the methods that they now use to mass produce it that is very inhumane.

2. I'm a quasi-omnivore. 95% Veggies / 5% Dairy & Meat (mainly on special occassions). So when I do eat meat I TRY to get it from places where it is raised organic / free range / humane. Its better quality meat and its better for you (more omega 3 less omega 6) and I eat red meat MAYBE twice a year. My diet emphasizes a wide range of nuts, legumes, fruits, and vegatables because it is much better for your long term health.

3. Watch some good videos of how beef, pork, and chicken is mass processed and for most just the conditions of these smass slaughter houses is pretty sickening.

[squidmaster]

free-range/organic/etc is bullshit:

http://www.peacefulprairie.org/freerange1.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_19433_the-6-most-horrifying-lies-food-industry-feeding-you_p2.html

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-u...meat-myth.aspx

http://www.cok.net/lit/freerange.php

that is UNLESS you buy it from a small farm like my old one. Even still I wouldn't support the industry. and dairy is the WORST.

dairy is the absolute worst product. it's sickening to even think about someone consuming dairy.

[Cabriolet]

RobertK, wouldn't you say its not a moral thing but a preference?

[squidmaster]

dairy farm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5r6546Ph48

not to mention the EXTREME mental and physical pain that the cows go through 24 hours a day every single day for their ENTIRE lives, until they're unable to stand and then left to die in a pile, or made into gummy bears (yeah, gelatin is crushed bone btw)

[Farbin Kaiber]

So its not ok unless its the squidmaster way? If its from YOUR farm, the one that converted you to vegan, right?

[future rs]

If you don't read this entire post, then don't fucking reply. I don't care.

Speculations, Accusations, and a blatantly one sided argument based off of another personal belief. Completely void of any factual evidence based in science or anything else that can be proven. Quoting prominent individuals and using catch words and phrases doesn't prove anything. It simply shows yet another argument from someones perspective. I would thing that with a Phd the writer would have hard factual evidence to back up their claims.

I have read the articles on the human digestive systems, along with studies on our physical anatomy in regards to jaw structure and tooth structure.

there are many very well regarded scientific theories going way back to the early origins of "humans" during paleolithic era's that show we as a species are omnivorous and "opportunistic eaters." Some more recent studies show that we even "hunted" as packs similar to wolves.

Our close relatives, Monkeys, even eat meat on occasion and actually participate in cannibalistic tendencies.

I don't disagree with vegetarian or vegan practices and I prefer a strict diet with moderation. Do we need meat every meal? No. Is it bad to eat meat? No. (And please don't bring morals into this, we already have a thread about that)

[iamsam]

your replies truly show how lowly ignorant you are.

and every word you have said in this thread truly shows what a complete loony you are!!!

[cale]

^ he's since adopted a new sense of superiority by condemning the actions which have made us what we are. Apparently it's ethically wrong to not do a 360 on what we evolved to do.

[streetwaves]

which post would you like me to reply to? there are some that are just too rhetorical and uninformed



you can eat plants.

small farm. less than 200 pheasants and at most a little more than a dozen mammals. the people next to us had a pretty large bovine farm though.

This one.

Do you believe in objective morality? Are right and wrong absolute? If so, what is the basis for this? Given that you already referred to morality's subjectivity previously, your grating personality and condescension is misguided: would you be this annoying in a conversation about which color is prettiest?

The other thing is that on the subject of anatomy, like most vegans I've met, you commit an obvious fallacy by comparing humans to either carnivores or herbivores and ignoring the existence of omnivores. We belong to that third group. If you don't think so, I'd advise you to keep that to yourself so that you don't appear stupid.

There's not much about you to suggest you're not simply in the selfish pursuit of the nice feeling of moral superiority.

[squidmaster]

Speculations, Accusations, and a blatantly one sided argument based off of another personal belief. Completely void of any factual evidence based in science or anything else that can be proven. Quoting prominent individuals and using catch words and phrases doesn't prove anything. It simply shows yet another argument from someones perspective. I would thing that with a Phd the writer would have hard factual evidence to back up their claims.

I have read the articles on the human digestive systems, along with studies on our physical anatomy in regards to jaw structure and tooth structure.

there are many very well regarded scientific theories going way back to the early origins of "humans" during paleolithic era's that show we as a species are omnivorous and "opportunistic eaters." Some more recent studies show that we even "hunted" as packs similar to wolves.

Our close relatives, Monkeys, even eat meat on occasion and actually participate in cannibalistic tendencies.

I don't disagree with vegetarian or vegan practices and I prefer a strict diet with moderation. Do we need meat every meal? No. Is it bad to eat meat? No. (And please don't bring morals into this, we already have a thread about that)

Yes it IS unhealthy AND bad to eat meat. What monkeys, or any animal, eats or once ate has absolutely no bearing on us as we OBVIOUSLY think it's crazy and wrong to eat humans, yet humans were well recorded cannibals. We have a choice and we have morals. Scapegoating these onto something else is a lazy way of not thinking about the impacts that your choices make on your surrounds.

[streetwaves]

Yes it IS unhealthy AND bad to eat meat. What monkeys, or any animal, eats or once ate has absolutely no bearing on us as we OBVIOUSLY think it's crazy and wrong to eat humans, yet humans were well recorded cannibals. We have a choice and we have morals. Scapegoating these onto something else is a lazy way of not thinking about the impacts that your choices make on your surrounds.

No, it's unhealthy to eat meat more than X amount. It would also be unhealthy to eat a diet comprised of 100% rice or 100% lettuce. Understand?