Veganism: Is it morally wrong to eat/kill animals?

[Bimmerman325i]

Only read the first few posts.

I go bird and elk hunting fairly regularly. One of these days I'll learn to shoot a bow well, but until then i've got my shotgun and rifle. Is it less pure than bow hunting? Yes. Is bow huntinf less pure than spear huntong? Yes. Are there more important things to worry about? Ohhh yes.

I find it morally right so long as you keep the animal from suffering. Industrial meat factories rub me the wrong way, so I try to just eat seafood where available/practical. Plus it is healthier.

[streetwaves]

honestly they don't live that much longer than the japanese. again, reiterating what I said before, life expectancy science is too milky to be exact.

http://www.okicent.org/

Um, do your research. After World War II Okinawa became inundated with American culture and fast food. They went from being the longest-lived and healthiest to having one of the worst life expectancies in Japan. The sons and daughters of extremely healthy elders are dying at 50 from heart attacks. Diet-life expectancy link "milky"?

Dude, first you said meat is extremely unhealthy even in small amounts and now you say diet and life expectancy may not be linked? Holy backtracking Batman!

[squidmaster]

Alright I went and pulled every one of your replies. let's go through them together.

I'll do this format and add it up
evidence/quotations
number/number

lol that right there was speculation.

Only thing I have said in regards to my diet is that I am a believer in moderation. I didn't even specify weather that was in relation to meat or any other "food"

Oh and if this is about health. I love that you post topics about binge eating. Sounds healthy....


And I have provided plenty of evidence. In fact I pulled quotes from your articles. And I don't need to provide a scientific based reply to your unscientific articles based solely off of "speculation"

0/0

"I didn't perpetuate the sale of leather. I didn't contribute to the killing of that animal. I bought a second hand item at a lower cost to me and the planet than buying a new car."

Way to justify your ignorant scapegoating. You couldn't find a second hand car that got better gas mileage? Or that wasn't made with animal bi-products? This right here is absolutely moronic, and you sir are a hypocrite.

0/0 (I don't count you quoting me)

HAHA everything out of you mouth is speculation!!!! Do you know my diet? what did I eat for dinner last night?

And when did I say anything even remotely as ignorant as "your wrong because bacon"

Automated self defense? I am not defending being a carnivore. I am defending ignorant scientifically lacking evidence. Almost all of your articles lack any true evidence other than bullshit graphs comparing similarities. You do realize that we as a race are still very different from any of the herbavores in your graphs?

Here is a great one. Some birds are considered omnivorous. Yet they don't share a single characteristic with your fancy graphs? Those articles are completely based on speculation. Also pigs have a very developed salivary gland and yet are considered opportunistic eaters and omnivores. Just like humans.

So please stop with the morality and other bullshit about me trying to justify my eating habits. LOL you know nothing about my diet or how I source my food or anything of the sort. And if your going to say that I am "ingorantly scapegoating" please provide factual evidence based in science and not some article written by an unreliable source.

0/0 (birds? cmon)

everything with a grain of salt.

"Carol Koprowski, a professor of preventive medicine at USC's Keck School of Medicine who wasn't involved in the research, cautioned that it can be hard to draw specific conclusions from a study like this because there can be a lot of error in the way diet information is recorded in food frequency questionnaires, which ask subjects to remember past meals in sometimes grueling detail."

0/1 good point honestly

Speculations, Accusations, and a blatantly one sided argument based off of another personal belief. Completely void of any factual evidence based in science or anything else that can be proven. Quoting prominent individuals and using catch words and phrases doesn't prove anything. It simply shows yet another argument from someones perspective. I would thing that with a Phd the writer would have hard factual evidence to back up their claims.

I have read the articles on the human digestive systems, along with studies on our physical anatomy in regards to jaw structure and tooth structure.

there are many very well regarded scientific theories going way back to the early origins of "humans" during paleolithic era's that show we as a species are omnivorous and "opportunistic eaters." Some more recent studies show that we even "hunted" as packs similar to wolves.

Our close relatives, Monkeys, even eat meat on occasion and actually participate in cannibalistic tendencies.

I don't disagree with vegetarian or vegan practices and I prefer a strict diet with moderation. Do we need meat every meal? No. Is it bad to eat meat? No. (And please don't bring morals into this, we already have a thread about that)

0/0 opportunistic eaters is right. that means that we had a scrap of meat, not 180lbs a year.

Bringing morals into this? Your argument just became an opinion and not fact based.

And your comment about "Scapegoating these onto something else is a lazy way of not thinking about the impacts that your choices make on your surrounds." is extremely ignorant to how I live my life. but thanks for weighing in your OPINION.

Oh and you may want to hurry and get rid of that BMW 5 series you own. LEATHER INTERIOR!!!!!! :giggle:

0/0



so let's add everything up!

evidence (links, anything really): 0
quotations: 1 (and you were just using something I posted anyway)

so... did I miss something?

and maybe if you'd have read the TITLE of the THREAD, "Veganism: Is it morally wrong to eat/kill animals?" you wouldn't be saying "Bringing morals into this? Your argument just became an opinion and not fact based." or "And please don't bring morals into this, we already have a thread about that"

right then

[squidmaster]

Um, do your research. After World War II Okinawa became inundated with American culture and fast food. They went from being the longest-lived and healthiest to having one of the worst life expectancies in Japan. The sons and daughters of extremely healthy elders are dying at 50 from heart attacks. Diet-life expectancy link "milky"?

Dude, first you said meat is extremely unhealthy even in small amounts and now you say diet and life expectancy may not be linked? Holy backtracking Batman!

I'm saying the science behind exact life expectancy is milky. it is. you cant give someone 5 more years JUST because they start eating more veggies. you can't say "oh now that you don't eat meat you're going to live x more years"
you can say "with good lifestyle this can improve your health and help you to live longer" as studies have shown. vegans that were studied globally had a longer life in every cited study. saying it'll make you live longer than this specific gene and lifestyle lineage is impossible though.

[squidmaster]

So according to this and the articles postes

***spoiler alert**** I AM ABOUT TO REVEAL INFORMATION ON MY DIET***
With my very small meat consumption (which mostly consists of fish) I am probably just as healthy.

And please keep the morality out of this. You are just as bad as the religous fanatics telling me I am going to hell because I don't go to church.

you probably are nearly just as healthy if you eat a few scraps of meat a few times a year. this thread is LITERALLY about the morality of it though, so maybe read the title before going bat shit.

[bmw325csi]

If you argue, though, that killing animals is okay because animals kill animals, couldn't that logic be used to justify really any animal behavior in humans? There are plenty of wild animal things humans generally don't do or that we consider immoral.

Ive considered eating my young a couple times, is that wrong?

[streetwaves]

I'm saying the science behind exact life expectancy is milky. it is. you cant give someone 5 more years JUST because they start eating more veggies. you can't say "oh now that you don't eat meat you're going to live x more years"
you can say "with good lifestyle this can improve your health and help you to live longer" as studies have shown. vegans that were studied globally had a longer life in every cited study. saying it'll make you live longer than this specific gene and lifestyle lineage is impossible though.

You are contradicting studies you linked to, fool. You said eating meat in small amounts was very unhealthy and greatly increased risk of death and/or health problems. The Okinawans prove my point that small amounts of meat in the diet pose no health problems. Vegans aren't healthier than those guys.

For the record, I probably eat roughly 2oz of fish a day on average. Want to keep in contact over the years and see who lives longer with fewer health problems?

[squidmaster]

only delicious

[streetwaves]

Ive considered eating my young a couple times, is that wrong?

Thanks for adding to my post?

[squidmaster]

You are contradicting studies you linked to, fool. You said eating meat in small amounts was very unhealthy and greatly increased risk of death and/or health problems. The Okinawans prove my point that small amounts of meat in the diet pose no health problems. Vegans aren't healthier than those guys.

For the record, I probably eat roughly 2oz of fish a day on average. Want to keep in contact over the years and see who lives longer with fewer health problems?

I provided studies that were for it, and studies that were skeptical but still showed the same results. I'm trying to give some skepticism so that the people that are skeptical can have something to latch onto as well.

[streetwaves]

you probably are nearly just as healthy if you eat a few scraps of meat a few times a year. this thread is LITERALLY about the morality of it though, so maybe read the title before going bat shit.

I think everyone here would agree it's only you that has gone batshit.

[streetwaves]

I provided studies that were for it, and studies that were skeptical but still showed the same results. I'm trying to give some skepticism so that the people that are skeptical can have something to latch onto as well.

You backtracked because you were full of shit and small amounts of meat aren't bad. The health benefits of plant-based diets are from increased consumption of healthy plant foods, mostly. Not that meat is as toxic as you'd say it is.

[Lodsin]

Does this mean we should start putting down all the carnivores? Lions, tigers and bears, Oh my!

[iamsam]

I think everyone here would agree it's only you that has gone batshit.

Aye!

[future rs]

Aye!

+1

Although I will say I am sorry about my miss information and lack of reading for the topic title.

But that begs the question. Why even bring science into this opinions based article?

You could have easily said "I believe its morally wrong"

And you're still a hypocrite riding around on your supple cow skin seats