Veganism: Is it morally wrong to eat/kill animals?

[streetwaves]

Do you have ANY support to show that less people starving will INCREASE birth rate or population growth rates? The general trend is that as people grow richer and their children have better health, they have less of them. This is contrary to your assumption. If people are better fed, they don't have to have as many children to farm which means less children born in that case, instead of magically more because they have more food to feed them.

I'm claiming that your assumption with no research, data, or facts to back up your notion being repeated shows that you are uninformed about the subject.

Fine, I've already said I don't study population. Frankly, I don't give a shit 99.9% of the time about it.

The fact that you want to defend your lack of knowledge and assumptions by trying to say that because I don't follow your poor reasoning that I must be on drugs does not help your case.

No, the fact you are so incredibly surprised that a person who doesn't spend time looking at graphs about population would agree with a highly intuitive idea that less starving may mean more people is what makes me think you're not thinking straight.

Your point underlines what will help cure much of the world's problems - education and the reference to facts instead of some weak claims. If squid understood how to make good arguments, your beef (pun intended) with him would be much less as well. Don't villianize another for something you are currently doing.

The absurdity of your line of thinking bothers me, if it help makes you feel better about your issue with squid's arguments.


You said something ignorantly about overpopulation. How is that better than saying stupid shit about how awful eating meat is? Pot, meet kettle.

The difference is an intuitive idea (less starving = more population growth) versus a completely ridiculous idea (man is not supposed to eat an ounce of meat despite having eaten meat since the birth of the species and is evolved to do so). Don't try to equivocate that bullshit with such a casual comment. I know you must light up when your little niche argument opportunity pops up - and congratulations - but if I'm supposed to feel bad about one dumb comment I made versus one million dumb comments made by our resident vegan, I must be dreaming.

[rwh11385]

Fine, I've already said I don't study population. Frankly, I don't give a shit 99.9% of the time about it.


No, the fact you are so incredibly surprised that a person who doesn't spend time looking at graphs about population would agree with a highly intuitive idea that less starving may mean more people is what makes me think you're not thinking straight.


The difference is an intuitive idea (less starving = more population growth) versus a completely ridiculous idea (man is not supposed to eat an ounce of meat despite having eaten meat since the birth of the species and is evolved to do so). Don't try to equivocate that bullshit with such a casual comment. I know you must light up when your little niche argument opportunity pops up - and congratulations - but if I'm supposed to feel bad about one dumb comment I made versus one million dumb comments made by our resident vegan, I must be dreaming.

So basically you are defending your ignorance by saying you don't care to be right about the subjects you are making claims about.

Regardless of how logical your assumption may seem to you it doesn't change the fact that it is the same shit Malthus said ages ago and not based on reality. What seems intuitive but is wrong or doesn't match with the data or trends is still wrong regardless of what you think it should be.

I don't study population projections. I just generally am informed and educated about the subjects I wish to discuss. Maybe try it sometime. That's the real irony of you starting threads to open a discussion - they should be based on facts and reason not ignorant assumptions. If you want to foster intelligent conversation, set a good example - not the opposite.

[streetwaves]

So basically you are defending your ignorance by saying you don't care to be right about the subjects you are making claims about.

Regardless of how logical your assumption may seem to you it doesn't change the fact that it is the same shit Malthus said ages ago and not based on reality. What seems intuitive but is wrong or doesn't match with the data or trends is still wrong regardless of what you think it should be.

I don't study population projections. I just generally am informed and educated about the subjects I wish to discuss. Maybe try it sometime. That's the real irony of you starting threads to open a discussion - they should be based on facts and reason not ignorant assumptions. If you want to foster intelligent conversation, set a good example - act intelligently.

Your grand contribution to this thread is to lay a major league smackdown on a casually made comment about a subject you get to use your trusty graphs for. That's fine, but you're making this much more serious bizness than it needs to be.

Don't feel the need to keep harping on the fact that what I said may be wrong; I've already admitted as much. But you stupidly compared an intuitive comment I made in a post containing several other, more important arguments to the counter-intuitive, blatantly ridiculous and reality-denying shit squid has said in the same thread.

As for setting a good example, lol, give me a fucking break. Small comment is small comment. This thread is 14 pages long, guy. I'm allowed one dumb comment if I'm surrounded by a sea of vegan bullshit. So can our dumb argument be over now? I'd show you some graphs to try and put you to sleep but I figure that'd just energize the hell out of you instead.

[rwh11385]

Your grand contribution to this thread is to lay a major league smackdown on a casually made comment about a subject you get to use your trusty graphs for. That's fine, but you're making this much more serious bizness than it needs to be.

Don't feel the need to keep harping on the fact that what I said may be wrong; I've already admitted as much. But you stupidly compared an intuitive comment I made in a post containing several other, more important arguments to the counter-intuitive, blatantly ridiculous and reality-denying shit squid has said in the same thread.

So can our dumb argument be over now? I'd show you some graphs to try and put you to sleep but I figure that'd just energize the hell out of you instead.

So it is stupid for me to point out that you are mad at someone for making dumb arguments while you have dumb and incorrect arguments of your own? Okay. Well. Get back to fighting fire with fire I guess and return the thread to a cesspool of bias and fallacy.

[streetwaves]

So it is stupid for me to point out that you are mad at someone for making dumb arguments while you have dumb and incorrect arguments of your own? Okay. Well. Get back to fighting fire with fire I guess and return the thread to a cesspool of bias and fallacy.

One dumb and incorrect argument of my own. It's easy for you to claim superiority in a thread you have contributed almost nothing to, regarding a subject I'm guessing you may have limited knowledge of. If you'd like to argue with me on something other than overpopulation, go ahead and start it now. Otherwise stop trying to milk this one exchange for all it's worth.

[Mr. Tasty]

who keeps raping these animals? god dammit hide the cows!

[CHIF8008]

no

[Emre]

I want to know which one of you sold this Squid d-bag an E30? Shame on you.

[streetwaves]

who keeps raping these animals? god dammit hide the cows!

I hear them parrot this line all the time. They love to say shocking shit like that and make people be like "what do you mean we're raping cows"?

Needless to say, they just have little websites that act as "vegan handbooks" for arguing with meat-eaters. That's a big part of why that dickhead responded like 1000 times in ten minutes when he first popped into the thread.

[rwh11385]

One dumb and incorrect argument of my own. It's easy for you to claim superiority in a thread you have contributed almost nothing to, regarding a subject I'm guessing you may have limited knowledge of. If you'd like to argue with me on something other than overpopulation, go ahead and start it now. Otherwise stop trying to milk this one exchange for all it's worth.

Well you know what they say when you assume. . .

I'm not from a state that is actively trying to drive out agriculture by establishing regulations that make conventional livestock operations impossible nor one that similarly wants to treat GMOs as evil. Not only are a decent number of friends in agriculture and the business of 'raping animals', but I'm a member of the local Farm Bureau chapter and have worked in the past on the subject (livestock).

The truth is that organic or free range will not provide the world with the output it desires unless we all want to starve or eat wheat all the time. The industrialization of the US agricultural sector has provided us the ability to have 2% of the country not only feed us but help the trade deficit by lots of exports to hungry nations.

We could have healthier diets and grow more of our own food in our backyards (or on urban rooftops), like I do. It's amazing to be able to walk ten feet from my porch, tear a few ears of sweet corn off, and toss them on a grill. But even if we all did this, like the Russians did and Michelle Obama supports - we would still need the large to mega farmers to provide the outputs we seek. Hating on factory farms is easy when you are in a state that doesn't understand them and hates agriculture but it hurts your argument by siding with the notion that it is evil.

Arguing with someone who wants to force his believe on others is challenging. Have you ever thought of how disproving squid is like having an evangelical stopping pushing his religion on others? Squid is a stupid dick that repeats poor arguments and expects correlation to prove causation. His beliefs aren't going to be changed by logic and reason. The best you can is constantly show that he is making fallacies but there is no winning, besides eating a delicious bacon wrapped steak at the end of it all.

[streetwaves]

Well you know what they say when you assume. . .

I'm not from a state that is actively trying to drive out agriculture by establishing regulations that make conventional livestock operations impossible nor one that similarly wants to treat GMOs as evil. Not only are a decent number of friends in agriculture and the business of 'raping animals', but I'm a member of the local Farm Bureau chapter and have work in the past on the subject.

The truth is that organic or free range will not provide the world with the output it desires unless we all want to starve or eat wheat all the time. The industrialization of the US agricultural sector has provided us the ability to have 2% of the country not only feed us but help the trade deficit by lots of exports to hungry nations.

We could have healthier diets and grow more of our own backyards, like I do. It's amazing to be able to walk ten feet from my porch, tear a few ears of sweet corn off, and toss them on a grill. But even if we all did this, like the Russians did and Michelle Obama supports - we would still need the large to mega farmers to provide the outputs we seek. Hating in factory farms is easy when you are in a state that doesn't understand them and hates agriculture but it hurts your argument by siding with the notion that it is evil.

Arguing with someone who wants to force his believe on others is challenging. Have you ever thought of how disproving squid is like having an evangelical stopping pushing his religion on others? Squid is a stupid dick that repeats poor arguments and expects correlation to prove causation. His beliefs aren't going to be changed by logic and reason. The best you can is constantly show that he is making fallacies but there is no winning, besides eating a delicious bacon wrapped steak at the end of it all.

For the record, I don't buy into the idea that veganism means we can feed the planet unless, as you say, they're literally talking about eating wheat all day.

Now, my own personal qualms with factory farming are some of the more brutal and unsanitary details of it. Do I think it's wrong to mass-produce animal products? No. But animals are more than mere objects, and that makes it understandable to object to seeing live animals living in absolute filth. But these are objections to the way that it is at least very often carried out, not to the idea of factory farming itself. Of course, some problems may have no alternative if mass production is the goal.

[nando]

actually, we can win. just don't wear stick on eyelashes and mascara. :p

[F34R]

isn't it crazy how people can get food year-round at places like super markets or stores?

where the fuck is your herd of animals? where's your chicken coop? wheres your meat locker?

Outback, and I kill my own meat. I snap chickens necks and shoot anything that runs from me. Then I remove it's head and guts, then rip off it's skin and fucking cook it.

I LOVE animals and will continue to kill and enjoy their flesh. Do I get pleasure from killing things? yup, and I get to eat them in the end ;)

You mad brah?

[Thizzelle]

pics of your muscles

Get at me bro :) 220

[Turf1600]

Outback, and I kill my own meat. I snap chickens necks and shoot anything that runs from me. Then I remove it's head and guts, then rip off it's skin and fucking cook it.

I LOVE animals and will continue to kill and enjoy their flesh. Do I get pleasure from killing things? yup, and I get to eat them in the end ;)

You mad brah?

I've always thought you were an asshole so none of this surprises me.