The Unions killed the Twinkie

[Grand525]

unbias assertion

Weird my company has been doing very well for the last 150 years and everyone is unionized. Weird..... Let me guess you believe its employees that kill a company and not its management, products, or market conditions.

You have it right.
Unlike most people are saying anything they want just to satisfy their own opinion without getting to to the bottom of the entire the issue objectively.

The market for junk food nowadays is fast foods, drive-thru.
Hostess is outdated.

Clearly the company didn't do enough to cope with market evolution.

It's like trying to keep selling cassette and VCD today, and expecting the same profit margin as 10 - 20 years ago.

If Boeing selling the same kind of airplanes with 20 years old technology today, they won't be able to survive.

It's the company, not the union.

[Vedubin01]

Why would he fare any better than the current owners who did the same thing?

He'd ship it to China for outsorcing duh! JK


Maybe hire non union workers, people that will compete to hold a job. Restructure debt and bring in new management that work under a bonus for performance more than larger base salaries. Maybe downsize in areas that are less productive. Hell I don't know, that's what he is good at.

[rwh11385]

He'd ship it to China for outsorcing duh! JK


Maybe hire non union workers, people that will compete to hold a job. Restructure debt and bring in new management that work under a bonus for performance more than larger base salaries. Maybe downsize in areas that are less productive. Hell I don't know, that's what he is good at.

LOL. And those things were never considered by the current owners, right?

Repeating common buzz words and phrases doesn't mean he'd be magically capable of turning the company around any better than current people in charge. Just like his campaign tried to do. 'I don't know how my tax plan works but it'll work better'

[ck_taft325is]

I'm not sure what the hate on Union's is. I hate bad Union's? But I know certain things can't be accomplished when it comes to bullheaded management/owners in that weird not-so-small but not-yet-huge corporations. Or worse, when your not-so-small but not-yet-huge company gets purchased out by a huge faceless Corporation that really isn't affecting change in the work place when it comes to sub-par work conditions.

[ThisGuy310]

When you are dealing with a free market system and you cant correct your business it will fail. unions have a strangle hold on so many of our country's work places.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6683091_negative-effects-labor-unions.html

Unions in 2012 are a lose lose. and when you finally realize it will be too late.

make less, keep your job, fire the people that under preform. reality sucks and cooperate bailouts aren't the answer.

Holy Shit, you are even from California!

+1

He's an illegal immigrant.

[randomtask37]

Both management and union made mistakes. Mgt. got them in the hole in the first place. Maybe it was by not having a strong business model... maybe after they came out of bankruptcy a few years back they negotiated poorly with the Union's and gave to much away, setting them up for failure. I don't know.
But my opinion is the bakers union made the worst choice by going on strike during the negotiations resulting a work stoppage. During the reorganization negotiations, the company showed the unions there books and tried to convey the Hostess was going under unless changes were made. This showed they weren't just being hard asses or pinching blue collar pennies for exec. salaries, but the company was truly going to fail unless changes were made.
It is rare for a company to show its financials to a union. This is one of those exempt / hourly lines. This was a cry for help. "Look guys, were fucked unless we cut X X and X. AND here are the financials to prove were not lying to you or taking advantage"
The teamsters saw the writing on the wall and got on board with management and they even tried to convince the bakers union it was the only way out. Unfortunatly for all those people in the teamsters, it was an all or nothing deal. The bakers union was stubborn and refused to accept the change was necessary. Now, not only are they out of work, they fucked a lot of other people. If they were really unsatisfied, ratify the new contract and look for another job while your earning a paycheck. Someone will fill your spot when you leave. But nooooo. That is giving into the man.

If the bakers are thinking, big deal, some other company will buy the bakery and ill work for them. I have the experience... 2 problems there.
1. The new companuy may pay less/ have worse benefits than hostess was offering
2. When they apply for a job at the new owner's bakery the staffing manager is going to think, what is better/worse for a bakery. A person with no experience I can train, at potentially less wage or someone who went on strike and was part of a company collapsing. Hell, the new Co. might just be non union.

In the end, its both parties fault. Poor business, poor labor relations and employees who were not engaged.

BTW- I work in Human Resources – labor relations, for a worldwide company that’s 100+ years old and has both union and non-union facilities. Im currently working at a union facility.

[Vedubin01]

Well written!


in other news, twinkies on Ebay $200k and rising :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OMG-RARE-Twinkie-Double-Pack-Sweet-Delicious-Mouth-Gold-/121021750393?pt=Art_Sculpture&hash=item1c2d755c79

[bmwstephen]

Well written!


in other news, twinkies on Ebay $200k and rising :)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OMG-RARE-Twi...item1c2d755c79

Q: I hear these will stay fresh for hundreds of years........... Is that true? I want to will it to my great, great, great, great grandchilden. In the year 2525, if man is still alive, they should be back down in price to about... Continue reading
A: No, they will mutate after hundreds of years into humongous Twinkoids that will devour mankind. If some brave soul doesn't drop $200k, mankind is doomed, and in the year 2552, Twinkoids will be able to buy man-Pinkies for... Continue reading
Nov 16, 2012
Q: Is it true that the sponge cake is made from the tears of Zeus himself and the creme filling is made from crushed unicorn horns?
A: I can neither confirm or deny these allegations, but I will say I think crushing up unicorn horns would make Zeus cry because he's a big pansy... sooooo, take away whatever facts you can from that. (THEY PROBABLY ARE!!!)
Nov 16, 2012
Q: Is this Twinkie new and unopened? At this price, it should be in very good condition. Thanks!
A: Brand new, unsoiled, and kept in a light/temprature/moisture controlled enviroment (my desk drawer)!!
Nov 16, 2012
Q: DO YOU OFFER OVERNIGHT SHIPPING ? IM HUNGRY AS HELL !!
A: For 200K I'll drive it to you anywhere in the USA!!! (Although I can't promise I won't get snacky in the car and eat one of the two, I won't eat the lucky one!!! Promise!!!)

[ZoomZoomBoom]

[rwh11385]

In case is interested in being informed on the subject... (don't read Faux News: http://mediamatters.org/mobile/resea...-scapeg/191440)

Everyone always talks about the greedy workers with their ridiculous pensions and health insurance, or whatever, people say. But do they ask where these legacy liabilities came from? Was it the workers at fault? The companies for being stupid as commonly said? Or something else....?

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=16171

100 - Executive Order 9250 Establishing the Office of Economic Stabilization.
October 3, 1942

Wage and Salary Stabilization Policy

1. No increases in wage rates, granted as a result of voluntary agreement, collective bargaining, conciliation, arbitration, or otherwise, and no decreases in wage rates, shall be authorized unless notice of such increases or decreases shall have been filed with the National War Labor Board, and unless the National War Labor Board has approved such increases or decreases.

7. In order to correct gross inequities and to provide for greater equality in contributing to the war effort, the Director is authorized to take the necessary action, and to issue the appropriate regulations, so that, insofar as practicable no salary shall be authorized under Title III, Section 4, to the extent that it exceeds $25,000 after the payment of taxes allocable to the sum in excess of $25,000. Provided, however, that such regulations shall make due allowance for the payment of life insurance premiums on policies heretofore issued, and required payments on fixed obligations heretofore incurred, and shall make provision to prevent undue hardship.

While we were at war, the government put into place price controls to manage production expenses which capped wage increases but allowed for health insurance premiums to be used to attract workers, since there was not enough to go around and in order for companies to remain in business they had to compete on benefits.

Is it the companies or employees faults that they had to suffer these legacy costs because of WWII or the government? Sure, they could have changed policies in the process and many have, but it is challenging to take benefits away from people... and the benefits from yesteryear is the concern for the companies now. Manufacturing requires fewer employees with more machines and salary people have 401ks instead of pensions, but the liabilities still exist from the past. Some are buying them out now (like GM and Ford) but they aren't "dumb" because they survived the war... and don't benefit from the lack of legacy costs like the car companies who fought on the other side... Irony. Oh well, some companies aren't as fortunate to have grown and re-define themselves so they can afford these legacy costs. Especially if they have unhealthy snack foods when people are more concerned about eating healthy. Even Big Food has gone natural and organic with some of their brands.

Oh well,

http://www.pionline.com/article/20121116/DAILYREG/121119925/hostess-brands-to-terminate-pension-plan-as-part-of-liquidation

By going into liquidation, the pension liability goes to Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. and the company can sell off the facilities and the brands.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/whos-to-blame-for-the-hostess-bankruptcy-wall-street-unions-or-carbs/265357/

This goes along with what RandomTask was saying:

Both takes are exceptionally reductive. Let's look at Wall street first. The private equity guys will likely lose most of their investment, since their stake in the company will be worthless. It's also not clear that the hedge funds and other lenders that supplied Hostess with its mountain of loans will fare much better. When it entered Chapter 11 this year, the company owed around $935 million, if you include the additional loan it took out to keep the lights on and creme flowing. Meanwhile, Reuters reports that the company listed $981.6 million worth of assets in its bankruptcy filing. There's virtually no chance they'll sell for that much in a liquidation. One of the failed bids to buy the whole company out of its last bankruptcy valued it at just $580 million. And that was when it was a going operation. If you factor in the interest payments Hostess has been making on its loans, some of the creditors might end up making out ok. But it doesn't seem likely anybody will make a killing.

In short: the smart money guys larded Hostess with too much debt and never figured out a real plan for fixing its business. They're coming out with a loss as a result.

As far as the unions go: You can blame them for not making enough concessions. You can blame the bakers for administering the final death blow. But you can't blame them for management's strategic incompetence, or the decision to try to run a flailing company on debt, hope, and empty calories.

There's more than enough blame in this story for everyone involved to have a taste.

The challenge with selling the company would be the pension and all the workers they might not need or want. They just want the product (brand, recipe, rights) and can bake it themselves: "The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are overcapacity," said Rayburn in an interview on CNBC.

By shutting down operations, they have the ability to let the brands move on from their walking dead status.

[ZoomZoomBoom]

tl;dr

[rwh11385]

tl;dr

And that's why Americans are willfully ignorant - they want to know what opinion to hold from being told so in bite size pieces from the news.

[ZoomZoomBoom]

And that's why Americans are willfully ignorant - they want to know what opinion to hold from being told so in bite size pieces from the news.

Yeah, as if you know my background. SMNF

[Nick_S]

:loco:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hostess-Twinkies-lot-of-5-boxes-of-10-each-50-cakes-/190755923787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c69f0674b

Or for lol's

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOSTESS-TWINKIES-DELIVERED-BY-VAN-WITH-YOUR-COMPANY-LOGO-DISPLAYED-ON-IT-/230882864511?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c1b0ed7f

[reelizmpro]

Random, very true. Unions have to accept change as well and evolve with the industry. It's in the interest of both parties to keep business going and maintain profits. If the union tried to bluff and they called it...then they paid the price.