The Unions killed the Twinkie

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  • RGCintha29073
    E30 Addict
    • Dec 2009
    • 471

    #76
    Originally posted by e30e
    Evil union right, more like evil corporation...

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/1...ostess-Bankery
    Very interesting article. This whole thing has been going down hill for a while.
    sigpic

    Comment

    • Kershaw
      R3V OG
      • Feb 2010
      • 11822

      #77
      i just saw that on reddit. lol. the rich stealing from the middle and poor class. literally.
      AWD > RWD

      Comment

      • DaveSmed
        E30 Fanatic
        • Apr 2007
        • 1406

        #78
        Originally posted by e30e
        Evil union right, more like evil corporation...

        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/1...ostess-Bankery
        Wow. There was no saving that company. No union is perfect, but as mentioned earlier in the thread checks and balances are vital. Given the account in that article, can anyone blame them for the strike? Holy shit.


        Anyway, on the topic of aircraft maintenance, anyone know if they are still outsourcing that?

        For awhile, when an aircraft was due for its heavy maintenance PM, they would fly it to Mexico, where a team of "mechanics" would tear down the plane, perform the inspections, reassemble, and the one licensed A&P mechanic on staff would sign off on the paperwork. Comforting to know the free market is at work while your butt is in an aluminum tube 38,000 ft from the ground.
        -Dave
        2003 Lincoln Towncar | 1992 BMW 325iC | 1968 Cadillac Deville

        Need some help figuring out the ETM?

        Comment

        • mulletman
          E30 Modder
          • May 2012
          • 801

          #79
          Originally posted by DaveSmed
          Anyway, on the topic of aircraft maintenance, anyone know if they are still outsourcing that?

          For awhile, when an aircraft was due for its heavy maintenance PM, they would fly it to Mexico, where a team of "mechanics" would tear down the plane, perform the inspections, reassemble, and the one licensed A&P mechanic on staff would sign off on the paperwork. Comforting to know the free market is at work while your butt is in an aluminum tube 38,000 ft from the ground.
          Still happening. My company outsources our heavy checks to a smaller company, although still in the US.

          Many heavy checks for larger aircraft are performed in various parts of Asia.

          The free market is the only thing to blame, honestly. If people want a better product, pony up the cash and pay for it. But no, everyone will still run to Expedia and buy the ticket that will keep them on a third-party outsourced airline in an uncomfortable regional jet all the way to their destination, because the ticket costs a buck and a half less than another one. Then they will complain about the service and the airplane all the way there. If there's one thing this job has done for me, it's made me lose all sympathy for passengers. They do it to themselves, every time.

          Since you're aware of maintenance outsourcing, I'm assuming you're also aware of the outsourcing of the entire operation. Any airplane with 'Express,' 'Eagle,' or 'Connection' on the side in conjunction with a major carrier name has absolutely nothing to do with the major carrier except the paint job and the ticket. Coincidentally, their crews are usually subject to much longer hours for much less money, along with the corresponding worsening of rest time, hotels, etc... than their mainline counterparts. Want to help the airline industry labor while using the free market system? Buy tickets that will keep you on mainline aircraft, flown by mainline pilots, for mainline money and benefits. It usually won't cost you any more if you do it right.

          Comment

          • mrsleeve
            I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
            • Mar 2005
            • 16385

            #80
            I will have respectfully disagree here, The last 3 times I have tied to book a flight to or from work with Delta (they do fly into my home airport on 2 different routes) , they want at least 1000 bucks one way. I use orbtiz and the same combination or with a slightly different route and the last leg on Alaska, is 695. Sometimes even less than that.

            If it was only a 100 difference I would prolly keep booking with Delta ( I used to fly on North west almost exclusively) but 300 bucks is a sizable difference. I am nearly always on small regional carriers for the 1st and last legs as I fly from small airport to small airport.

            You can bitch all you want and I do agree that you guys are not paid nearly enough, but the fact remains that the consumer is always going to do what costs them the least amount of money. I dont bitch much about the flying experience once past the invasive and inept TSA, any more since now flying is not much more than taking the bus, it has become much the same kind of experience behind the curtain anymore. Its something you have to accept when you fly more than once a year. Unless you want to pony up 2400 for a business class seat, you get what you pay for. I have gotten the up grade many times at the gate, and flown as employee guest on American, and while its nice up front, its not 3-4 times the price nice.

            I would not mind paying a bit more than I do if I knew the Crews would get that increase, but you and I both know thats not going to happen.
            Originally posted by Fusion
            If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
            The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


            The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

            Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
            William Pitt-

            Comment

            • mulletman
              E30 Modder
              • May 2012
              • 801

              #81
              Originally posted by mrsleeve
              I will have respectfully disagree here, The last 3 times I have tied to book a flight to or from work with Delta (they do fly into my home airport on 2 different routes) , they want at least 1000 bucks one way. I use orbtiz and the same combination or with a slightly different route and the last leg on Alaska, is 695. Sometimes even less than that.

              If it was only a 100 difference I would prolly keep booking with Delta ( I used to fly on North west almost exclusively) but 300 bucks is a sizable difference. I am nearly always on small regional carriers for the 1st and last legs as I fly from small airport to small airport.

              You can bitch all you want and I do agree that you guys are not paid nearly enough, but the fact remains that the consumer is always going to do what costs them the least amount of money. I dont bitch much about the flying experience once past the invasive and inept TSA, any more since now flying is not much more than taking the bus, it has become much the same kind of experience behind the curtain anymore. Its something you have to accept when you fly more than once a year. Unless you want to pony up 2400 for a business class seat, you get what you pay for. I have gotten the up grade many times at the gate, and flown as employee guest on American, and while its nice up front, its not 3-4 times the price nice.

              I would not mind paying a bit more than I do if I knew the Crews would get that increase, but you and I both know thats not going to happen.
              Alaska is not a regional carrier. By regional I am referring to companies like ExpressJet, SkyWest, Mesa, GoJets, Pinnacle, Compass, Horizon, etc. Other than that, I understand your point, and you are not incorrect.

              I really do wish there was an option between the cattle-car and the first class ticket. I feel like there is a large segment of the population that would gladly pay 500 bucks instead of 400 if there was an increase in comfort and service. It's like you said... first class is nice, but it's not a few thousand dollars nice.

              Comment

              • mrsleeve
                I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
                • Mar 2005
                • 16385

                #82
                Yeah I know Alaska isnt but one route in and out for delta/United is Sky west and when I get out east its American Eagle or express jet to get me to the shop.
                Originally posted by Fusion
                If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                William Pitt-

                Comment

                • rwh11385
                  lance_entities
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 18403

                  #83
                  So everyone freaked out a bit early?http://www.boston.com/business/news/...apI/story.html

                  Comment

                  • Vedubin01
                    R3V Elite
                    • Jun 2006
                    • 5852

                    #84
                    Originally posted by rwh11385
                    So everyone freaked out a bit early?http://www.boston.com/business/news/...apI/story.html

                    Its just prolonging its demise! The company structure is shot and corrupt. Its better to sell out and allow new blood to rebuild the name.
                    Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs!

                    Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.

                    Comment

                    • rwh11385
                      lance_entities
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 18403

                      #85
                      Originally posted by Vedubin01
                      Its just prolonging its demise! The company structure is shot and corrupt. Its better to sell out and allow new blood to rebuild the name.
                      So was the 2004 bankruptcy that lasted until 2009, and turned down selling out in 2007. But I guess people like you enjoyed jumping on the opportunity to solely blame unions, eh?

                      Comment

                      • Vedubin01
                        R3V Elite
                        • Jun 2006
                        • 5852

                        #86
                        Originally posted by rwh11385
                        So was the 2004 bankruptcy that lasted until 2009, and turned down selling out in 2007. But I guess people like you enjoyed jumping on the opportunity to solely blame unions, eh?

                        actually if you read the teamster union was blaming the bakery union on not resolving it. Rarely will you EVER see one union place blame on another union. The company is done unless your Jesus bails out Hostess!
                        Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs!

                        Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.

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                        • Brilliantrot 318is
                          E30 Enthusiast
                          • Oct 2011
                          • 1073

                          #87
                          I read the unicorn killed Twinkie so I clicked..
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                          • rwh11385
                            lance_entities
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 18403

                            #88
                            Originally posted by Vedubin01
                            actually if you read the teamster union was blaming the bakery union on not resolving it. Rarely will you EVER see one union place blame on another union. The company is done unless your Jesus bails out Hostess!
                            My Jesus? What are you talking about you dolt?

                            The sole cause of the downfall of Hostess was the bakery union? Why did you title the thread "unions"? Did they cause the January bankruptcy? Or was it solely the private equity ownership that saddled it up with more debt and did not improve its operations?

                            Maybe you should learn that you shouldn't go through the world being simple-minded and expecting only one cause for anything.

                            Comment

                            • ForcedFirebird
                              R3V OG
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 8300

                              #89
                              Originally posted by Brilliantrot 318is
                              I read the unicorn killed Twinkie so I clicked..
                              I thought the same at first glance on FB when this was posting lol.
                              john@m20guru.com
                              Links:
                              Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

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                              • Vedubin01
                                R3V Elite
                                • Jun 2006
                                • 5852

                                #90
                                Originally posted by rwh11385

                                The sole cause of the downfall of Hostess was the bakery union?
                                No I would guess not but they are the final reason they were closing as they did not want to negotiate with corporate. This was also pointed out by the other union after they reached a deal with corporate.




                                Originally posted by rwh11385
                                Did they cause the January bankruptcy?
                                Most likely had a hand it in but unless you have full access to the books you cant make any statement to either side and is mute because they got though it to this point.


                                Originally posted by rwh11385
                                Or was it solely the private equity ownership that saddled it up with more debt and did not improve its operations?
                                its their right as a company to make those decisions. The tail does not wag the dog.

                                Originally posted by rwh11385
                                Maybe you should learn that you shouldn't go through the world being simple-minded and expecting only one cause for anything.
                                Maybe you should understand that if the people did not like working for Hostess, they have the right to go find employment anywhere else someone will hire them. And that its not the workers decision on which way the company is ran. IT IS THEIR decision to whether they want to work for a company ran the way this one was.
                                Build your own dreams, or someone else will hire you to build theirs!

                                Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.

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