Sounds like all that union talk has driven you to despise success. Instead of people being driven by people being successful, nowadays they piss and moan about it not being fair.
The Unions killed the Twinkie
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First of all US automakers have faced declining sales a while now due to imports which is y we r on this forum. Seems to me,the UAW simply asked for too much money. They made $69 a hour and up assembling GM's! But this begs the question....why did GM agree to that wage?
also, right on Mr. Sleve98 M3/4/5
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They did not make 69 bucks an hour. Its a misnomer and shocking 1/2 truth used to stir up this kind of vulgarity for all things union, even with benefits most long seniority (15 + years) production workers were in the upper 20's to low 30's per hour. The 70 an hour figure is what GM had to figure for "labor costs" to pay its current staff and paying its retirement commitments to its half a million retireesOriginally posted by FusionIf a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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They did not make 69 bucks an hour. Its a misnomer and shocking 1/2 truth used to stir up this kind of vulgarity for all things union, even with benefits most long seniority (15 + years) production workers were in the upper 20's to low 30's per hour. The 70 an hour figure is what GM had to figure for "labor costs" to pay its current staff and paying its retirement commitments to its half a million retirees
Thanks for clearing that up. I got that figure from an article online. Just goes to show how things get misrepresented and twisted."I'd probably take the E30 M3 in this case just because I love that little car, and how tanky that inline 6 is." - thecj
85 323i M TECH 1 S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZE
88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/SCHWARZE
89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/M TECH CLOTH-ALCANTARA
91 M TECHNIC CABRIO TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH CLOTH-LEATHER
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Keep the talent that drove them into the ground in the first place and then left anyway?
In hindsight, it looks like all that money miiiiight have been better spent trying to keep the workers, not the CEO with all the business sense of a cupcake. Turns out when he left, the company kept going. When the workers left, notsomuch.
Unions did not kill Hostess, doubling down on stupid decisions did. Union or non-union, any company run by morons is going to lack a positive outlook.
Here's hoping the guys with vested pensions at least get a piece of the liquidation. They earned it. Management didn't.-Dave
2003 Lincoln Towncar | 1992 BMW 325iC | 1968 Cadillac Deville
Need some help figuring out the ETM?Comment
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Keep the talent that drove them into the ground in the first place and then left anyway?
In hindsight, it looks like all that money miiiiight have been better spent trying to keep the workers, not the CEO with all the business sense of a cupcake. Turns out when he left, the company kept going. When the workers left, notsomuch.
Unions did not kill Hostess, doubling down on stupid decisions did. Union or non-union, any company run by morons is going to lack a positive outlook.
Here's hoping the guys with vested pensions at least get a piece of the liquidation. They earned it. Management didn't.
This whole "executive bonus to retain top talent" while in bankruptcy is a load of BS. It's become common for executives to build entire careers of driving companies into bankruptcy, then pulling massive bonuses and walking away. Meanwhile, they've destroyed the livelihood of a few thousand people.
Honestly, this nation desperately needs more jobs that will support middle-class lifestyles. Some unions do help to provide that. In some situations, a union isn't necessary... but there are other industries (such as the one I'm in) in which labor unions are absolutely critical to the functioning of the entire industry, and the safety of the general public. No company has ever been 'saved' by labor concessions. Sure, maybe it helps them limp along another month or two, but if the business model is such that giving your employees a cost-of-living increase is going to destroy your ability to exist, you were doomed anyway.
That's a lot of points but it ignores the fundamentals - union labor is not efficient for business. It can be directly linked to the death of the American auto and airline industries for instance. You talk about corporate greed? Few portions of society are greedier and act more entitled than unions. Good for Hostess - I would have canned all 18k of them, reincorporated elsewhere in different state and started over with a non-unionized labor force.
Sounds harsh I know - but it's business.
I'd like to make a wage that is commensurate with my skills, experience, and personal exposure. How is that 'greedy?' Meanwhile, the president of my company makes more money than Gary Kelly, the Southwest Airlines CEO. My company is very small, with 48 airplanes compared to Southwest's almost 600. As I detailed above, the American Airlines management team is currently trying to walk off with roughly 60 MILLION each. For doing nothing but destroying a company.
And don't hide behind "it's harsh, but it's business." Business is no cover for a complete lack of moral fiber. Business is not an excuse for the destruction of lives. Frank Lorenzo had pilots committing suicide due to the stresses of what he was doing to their company and their ability to provide for their families. The lives of your employees should be more important than the almighty dollar. Business efficiency is not the highest good. Slavery is really fucking efficient. Try walking a mile in the shoes of an airline pilot, then you can speak to me about the greed of the employees.
Honestly, the fundamental problem lies with the consumers. They search for the cheapest ticket, bar none. With zero regard for their personal safety, they will purchase a ticket. The Colgan crash in Buffalo NY a few years back? A captain who had failed 7 proficiency checks, and an FO who was sick, but couldn't afford to call in sick? You get what you fucking pay for, and apparently all those people could afford was a big smoking hole in the ground. I haven't yet heard of a recent crash in which a mainline crew for a US airline stalled a perfectly good airplane into the ground because of nothing but incompetence. How about Comair a few years before that? They tried to depart the wrong fucking runway, and turned everyone into a fireball. How about Pinnacle 3701? Gross negligence and complete lack of professionalism there, although thankfully they took no one else with them. The American people will get what they are consistently willing to pay for. And when you pay your pilot 20k per year, you might just not live to regret it.
"When the dust settles, when the sun sets, there is one big question with which we are left. What, after all, is the meaning and purpose of the American corporation? Is it just a bundle of financial assets? To be moved around to their highest and best use? Or is a corporation a network of mutual obligations? Mutual responsibilities? A compact between people to produce wealth in the future? Can we have it both ways? The Eastern story suggests, no."
-Robert ReichLast edited by mulletman; 11-18-2012, 09:45 AM.Comment
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Wow, thanks for posting. I had heard about airline pilots and flight crew making far less than what people think. There was actually a story on it on the news. They were saying how they had to get other jobs which contribute to the crew flying tired. There's no wonder some of them become dependent on substances. I just saw the movie Flight which was an awesome movie but also was a wake up call. The pilot was a functional alcoholic who also did coke. Maintenance was overlooked on the screw jack which was determined to send the plane into a dive yet they still wanted to blame the pilot even though he saved lives. Companies cut corners all the time, sometimes they get caught and fined but it's nothing but a slap on the wrist to them. Maintenance on an aircraft is not a corner to cut. A lot of jobs are inherently dangerous to the workers and the public. There's a responsibility to protect both and that lies with the employer. People don't understand why we get the benefits we do with my job but what they don't realize is we work outside around dangerous equipment where people get crushed and lose limbs. We are also exposed to exhaust particulates, brake lining dust, tire wear dust from the many machine engines around us. It's dangerous and we accept that but it doesn't mean the employer doesn't have an obligation to protect us."I'd probably take the E30 M3 in this case just because I love that little car, and how tanky that inline 6 is." - thecj
85 323i M TECH 1 S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZE
88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/SCHWARZE
89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/M TECH CLOTH-ALCANTARA
91 M TECHNIC CABRIO TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH CLOTH-LEATHER
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You do know that whole movie is a fabrication, except for the upside down plane part right, and it crashed and killed all aboard, right? It's called Hollywood spin...Comment
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"I'd probably take the E30 M3 in this case just because I love that little car, and how tanky that inline 6 is." - thecj
85 323i M TECH 1 S52 - ALPINEWEISS/SCHWARZE
88 M3 - LACHSSILBER/SCHWARZE
89 M3 - ALPINEWEISS II/M TECH CLOTH-ALCANTARA
91 M TECHNIC CABRIO TURBO - MACAOBLAU/M TECH CLOTH-LEATHER
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About $25/hr, $50K/year according to BLS
http://www1.salary.com/Airframe-and-...ic-salary.html
http://www.pionline.com/article/2012...of-liquidation
By going into liquidation, the pension liability goes to Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) protects the retirement incomes of more than 44 million American workers in more than 27,500 private-sector defined benefit pension plans. A defined benefit plan provides a specified monthly benefit at retirement, often based on a combination of salary and years of service. PBGC was created by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 to encourage the continuation and maintenance of private-sector defined benefit pension plans, provide timely and uninterrupted payment of pension benefits, and keep pension insurance premiums at a minimum.Last edited by rwh11385; 11-18-2012, 01:46 PM.Comment
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1985 BMW 325e
1997 BMW M3/4/5
2007 Chevy Silverado Crew Cab 5.3 v8Comment
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